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Post by heckheckle on Sept 14, 2009 1:40:31 GMT -5
It does my heart good to see that most people on this forum can understand why I advocate
planting fruit trees, even if they won't admit it. Probably because they didn't think of it first.
I didn't think of it first, either, but I keep the thought alive and pass it on to others whenever I get a chance.
Thank You to Mink, and her Dad.
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Post by heckheckle on Sept 14, 2009 1:50:51 GMT -5
I may as well stick my thoughts in here about the never ending problem of freshwater shortages.Its time that someone[sic] gets Hopping to desalinate the sea water that is quite abundant off the Northern California Coast.
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Post by capttankona on Sept 14, 2009 12:25:47 GMT -5
We don't need expensive desalination plants. We do not have limited water source like Israel. We need more resevoirs.
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Post by heckheckle on Oct 7, 2009 2:40:43 GMT -5
Drought is over. And no rain.  ? |
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Post by The Big Dog on Oct 7, 2009 19:55:56 GMT -5
The true rainy season in Northern California doesn't begin for another month or so. And nothing has been done to increase storage capacity to catch the rain when the sky does, as it always does, open up and give us a wet winter or two.
The problem was, and still is, exactly as capttankona alluded in his post above. The Sierra Nevada range, where much of the state's water starts as snow, is one of the snowiest places on earth. Even in lean years, the Sierra snow load is enormous. To help capture all that, California currently has water storage capacity for probably 20-25 million people, plus the agricultural load.
But, when one considers that there are about 35 million people living in the state, the issue becomes starkly clear.
And no one in Excremento is talking about adding storage capacity. Instead we have Marin County bungling it's way to a hugely expensive, and energy intensive, desalination plant. That plant will produce water exponentially more expensively than simply building a couple of more reservoirs, but what the hell, right? It's only taxpayer money.
In the meantime, up in Excremento, the Legislature has recessed and gone home. The Governor is holding 700 plus bills on his desk hostage, threatening to veto every last one unless or until the Legislature comes forward with some measure of improvement to the water issue. The leadership of the Legislature is doing nothing, the Governor is doing nothing, and in the Central Valley valuable agricultural land is going to waste and unemployment is above 45% in some counties.
Meanwhile, it's so damned cold up in the Sierras that some of the resorts are already making snow and will be opening some of their runs this weekend. The second weekend in October is the earliest opening that most anyone can remember.
Get your facts straight heckle... the problem here is not some pie in the sky desalination plant. The problem is, and always has been, our political leaders playing grab ass with the state's water resources.
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Post by subdjoe on Oct 7, 2009 20:16:50 GMT -5
The true rainy season in Northern California doesn't begin for another month or so. And nothing has been done to increase storage capacity to catch the rain when the sky does, as it always does, open up and give us a wet winter or two. Which is something that alarmists DON'T seem to get. Sometimes it doens't start until mid or late January. And sometimes we get three or four dry years in a row. Then get swamped by two or three really wet ones to average things out. <snip> In the meantime, up in Excremento, the Legislature has recessed and gone home. GOOD! That means they won't be actively working to screw us over. We are safe. For a while.The Governor is holding 700 plus bills on his desk hostage, threatening to veto every last one GOOD! Most of them are do nothing bullpucky. We would be better off without them.<snip> |
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Post by The Big Dog on Oct 7, 2009 22:29:52 GMT -5
Yeah it's sort of good that the Governor is holding all that legislation hostage. For much, if not all, of it though if he doesn't sign it by Sunday it becomes law by itself. California does not have the "pocket veto" that the federal executive enjoys.
Several of those bills, including AB962, are things that some of us care about deeply. Yet I get the impression that all he is doing is his impersonation of Nero only it's not Rome that's on fire.
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Post by subdjoe on Oct 8, 2009 0:14:53 GMT -5
Yeah it's sort of good that the Governor is holding all that legislation hostage. For much, if not all, of it though if he doesn't sign it by Sunday it becomes law by itself. California does not have the "pocket veto" that the federal executive enjoys. Several of those bills, including AB962, are things that some of us care about deeply. Yet I get the impression that all he is doing is his impersonation of Nero only it's not Rome that's on fire. Could be. I'm taking him at his word that he will actually veto them and not just let them become law without his signing them. I know - a stretch of belief. I've been sending my emails about 962, hoping that they will do some good. |
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Post by heckheckle on Oct 8, 2009 21:33:26 GMT -5
BD: So far no one on this Forum has shown me any legitimate rebuttal to what I say. That says something about my facts. You are forgiven.
Our difference seems to be that I think a good bit bigger than you do. You seem to be only interested in a slug of water for yourself. There are large Desalinating Plants throughout the world. One comes to my mind because I had been there in 1942.
The Island of Curacao Has no water supply of its own, They Desalinate.
If California now has water shortages, it won't get better by itself.
I don't advocate small Plants for some small area. Or for a drink of water. Even with all of the Sierra water we still have water shortages. Think big, Friend.
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Post by The Big Dog on Oct 9, 2009 0:36:30 GMT -5
BD: So far no one on this Forum has shown me any legitimate rebuttal to what I say. That says something about my facts. You are forgiven. Thank you, oh benevolent heckle.... and you can kiss my big, white, hairy butt for that patronizing little remark. I've shown you chapter and verse over the months where you are just flat out wrong or, at best, simply unrealistic. You present your opinion as fact. Those opinions are, quite often, presented as random thoughts, near on to non sequitir which makes it very difficult to take anything you post seriously or as more than the ramblings of someone who thinks they know better. And you deduced this..... how? The only thing bigger is your idea of what a big thinker you are. You don't have a single clue about what I am interested in, and I've been watching the water wars in California actively for 35 years or so, and have studied the history of the issue extensively. And for a locale that has no source of fresh water, that is located on or near an ocean, a desalination plant makes absolute sense. Even though they are incredibly expensive, and use incredible amounts of energy to acheive the result if people choose to live where there is no water then that is the most reasonable option open to them. But that is not the case here in California. Do you not read my posts through completely? We have water shortages quite simply because the resevoir storage capacity has deliberately not kept pace with the growth of California's population. It's a situation very much similar to Highway 101 through Sonoma County. It was expanded to two lanes of freeway in the 1950's and 60's, but by the early 80's when the population had begun to grow beyond any and all expectations rather than expand the freeway the powers that be let it sit as is. Now we are in the 21st century with the county's population nearly quadrupled from what it was when the two lane each direction freeway was completed and only now they are getting around to putting in another lane..... and that lane will be HOV half the day. Big help. The same is true on a much larger scale with water in California, except the state is still in the "do nothing" phase. Unless storage capacity is increased we could have five wet winters in a row and there would still not be enough water for all. And while you tout desalination, that method has never proven to be particularly effective (cost/benefit or otherwise) for large populations in the tens of millions. Your example of Caracao, while supportive of your theory kind of goes by the wayside on deeper examination. Curacao is an island of 171.4 square miles with a resident population about 140,000 souls. Marin County, which as previously noted is considering building a deslination plant to augment their existing fresh water storage capacity, is 828 square miles, with a resident population over 247,000. Desalination to meet the full needs of Marin would cost billions..... taxpayer dollars. It would be far cheaper to build more upstream storage capacity, with the side benefit of having that storage capacity generate electricity through hydro-electric production, rather than burn more energy than we can safely generate (remember the state won't let anyone build a new power plant either) through desalination. Your musings of theory are just that. And while you may wish to consider me "not a big thinker", I've put a hell of a lot more thought and hard study in my life than I would wager you have. In the meantime, as I said before, don't flatter yourself there Mr. Peabody. |
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Post by capttankona on Oct 9, 2009 12:19:36 GMT -5
Drought is over. And no rain. ? Look, we do not have a limited supply of water in winter months, we just have a poor design for keeping the runoff that is not needed by the rivers to maintain healthy waterways. Damns on rivers are not the answer in my mind, as they will only create a limited amount of storage and prevent a free flowing river, which harms the health of the river. We do, however, need more resevoirs and creative ways to fill them. I always thought it would be a good idea to build resevoirs along side rivers, fill them in winter months, and then use the water to maintain flow in dry months. |
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Post by capttankona on Oct 9, 2009 12:24:35 GMT -5
BD: So far no one on this Forum has shown me any legitimate rebuttal to what I say. That says something about my facts. You are forgiven. Our difference seems to be that I think a good bit bigger than you do. You seem to be only interested in a slug of water for yourself. There are large Desalinating Plants throughout the world. One comes to my mind because I had been there in 1942. The Island of Curacao Has no water supply of its own, They Desalinate. If California now has water shortages, it won't get better by itself. I don't advocate small Plants for some small area. Or for a drink of water. Even with all of the Sierra water we still have water shortages. Think big, Friend. Think conservative and you will not be wasting my money. Desalination plants are ridiculous in this state. Only morons, idiots and simple minded children would support them over more water storage capacity. What you advocate is a solution for a desert country surrounded on all sides by enemies who wish to push them into the sea. |
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