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Post by Mink on Mar 27, 2009 0:50:05 GMT -5
None of us has experienced a history of slavery, but we could at least try and understand it. I'm not asking for special treatment ....just understanding. As for opportunities, they are far and few between in poverty.
Imagine coming from another country, taken into slavery only to be emanicpated for what? Next comes oppression,KKK and people who do not want you in their schools or communites. Sure, a strong person can rise above all of that, but how many?
I'm still not condoning the lifestyle that caused the young man to kill four policemen, but it takes understanding to keep the cycle from going any further. Affirmative Action was a good program and what is it called now??
If any of you ever saw "Boyz in the Hood", where Blacks kill Blacks, is it any coincidence there are liquor stores so conveniently placed where the Blacks live instead of Boys & Girls Clubs, nice parks or well kept streets?
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Post by subdjoe on Mar 27, 2009 2:33:51 GMT -5
We are obviously on different pages here. You guys only go back the last 50 years or so.......I am going back to slavery. Again, my heart goes out to the families that lost a loved one last weekend. OK, I can see your point. Any former slave can get reparaitons. Oh, and what about the decendants of WHITE slaves? How about the decendants of whites who had been owned by blacks? (and, yes there had been whites owned by blacks here). Do they get a free ride too? |
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Post by saunterelle on Mar 27, 2009 12:28:13 GMT -5
We are obviously on different pages here. You guys only go back the last 50 years or so.......I am going back to slavery. Again, my heart goes out to the families that lost a loved one last weekend. OK, I can see your point. Any former slave can get reparaitons. Oh, and what about the decendants of WHITE slaves? How about the decendants of whites who had been owned by blacks? (and, yes there had been whites owned by blacks here). Do they get a free ride too? Sorry but white indentured servants don't count as slaves. Blacks were uprooted and had their entire history and culture ripped away from them when they were stolen from Africa and brought here to labor. Even now, black Americans are dealing with the repercussions of having their roots based on the exploitative actions of Americans. Mink is right, you wouldn't understand. |
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Post by subdjoe on Mar 27, 2009 13:17:20 GMT -5
OK, I can see your point. Any former slave can get reparaitons. Oh, and what about the decendants of WHITE slaves? How about the decendants of whites who had been owned by blacks? (and, yes there had been whites owned by blacks here). Do they get a free ride too? Sorry but white indentured servants don't count as slaves. Blacks were uprooted and had their entire history and culture ripped away from them when they were stolen from Africa and brought here to labor. Even now, black Americans are dealing with the repercussions of having their roots based on the exploitative actions of Americans. Mink is right, you wouldn't understand. I'm not talking about indentured servants. I am talking about SLAVES. WHITE SLAVES. Mostly Irish and Scots, but some English and Welsh too. Usually owned by other whites, but some owned by blacks. Do some research on it, boy, learn your history. And blacks were not "stolen" from Africa. They were captured and sold - BY BLACKS - to slavers. So, again, learn your history, boy. Oh, and the slavers who bought those blacks to bring to the Americas were good Northern men, financed by Northern capital. Learn your history. So, if you are going to blame anyone for blacks as slaves here in the Americas, point to the first link - their own relatives in Africa. |
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Post by crossride on Mar 27, 2009 15:09:55 GMT -5
OK, I can see your point. Any former slave can get reparaitons. Oh, and what about the decendants of WHITE slaves? How about the decendants of whites who had been owned by blacks? (and, yes there had been whites owned by blacks here). Do they get a free ride too? Sorry but white indentured servants don't count as slaves. Blacks were uprooted and had their entire history and culture ripped away from them when they were stolen from Africa and brought here to labor. Even now, black Americans are dealing with the repercussions of having their roots based on the exploitative actions of Americans. Mink is right, you wouldn't understand. And what is it that gives yourself and Mink some greater understanding? |
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Post by saunterelle on Mar 27, 2009 15:12:46 GMT -5
For starters, I took a class on the African American experience in America. Reading books and talking with students in the class gave me a deeper understanding. Sometimes you have to listen instead of spouting off from your experience, which is much different from theirs.
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Post by crossride on Mar 27, 2009 15:21:15 GMT -5
None of us has experienced a history of slavery, but we could at least try and understand it. I'm not asking for special treatment ....just understanding. As for opportunities, they are far and few between in poverty. Imagine coming from another country, taken into slavery only to be emanicpated for what? Next comes oppression,KKK and people who do not want you in their schools or communites. Sure, a strong person can rise above all of that, but how many? I'm still not condoning the lifestyle that caused the young man to kill four policemen, but it takes understanding to keep the cycle from going any further. Affirmative Action was a good program and what is it called now?? If any of you ever saw "Boyz in the Hood", where Blacks kill Blacks, is it any coincidence there are liquor stores so conveniently placed where the Blacks live instead of Boys & Girls Clubs, nice parks or well kept streets? WOW Mink, where to start? You said it quite well, that a strong person can rise above it. Thank you for pointing out that the people who are still living in those impoverished areas that you refer to are not strong people. I completely agree. Slavery was abolished, oh, a few yearas ago, I think. People of all races and creeds and colors have succeeded quite well since then so their is no excuse. And PUHLEEZE, slavery in the past has nothing to do with why a degenerat man (who happens to be black) kills 4 cops. He is a criminal, PERIOD. Blaming society, especially a society that passed by over a hundred years ago is borderline insanity. Nothing that has happened since then has been too much for a "strong person" to overcome. The weak choose to stay weak, mink, it's not MY fault. As for those liquor stores on the corner... is it affluent white from the suburbs flocking to those stores to keep them in business? Free market, Mink. If no one shopped there, they'd have to close. If the lowlifes who live in these places cared, then there would be parks and boys and girls clubs. But guess what, they just vandalize those, the gangs take them over, and downhill they go anyway. You can't improve the neighborhoods until you improve the people in them. And they don't want to improve. Mixon had "government intervention" in his life that tried to change his course. Police arrested him, courts dealt with him, prison tried to re-habilitate him (and at the least would serve as a huge deterrent to most people) and then parole, all trying to change his course. Giving him any number of chances to improve himself. But he didn't have to improve at all, because he knew there would always be people like Al, Jesse, and you for that matter, standing by to play the race card to excuse whatever the hell he did. He could have improved if he had really wanted to. But he killed 4 cops instead. |
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Post by The New Guy on Mar 27, 2009 17:08:52 GMT -5
we should all kneel down and kiss santurelle's ass now because he took a c l a a a a a a s s!.
wow, now we know who to turn to when we need the facts re: racism and slavery in america. thanks for clearing it all up for us, santurelle.
there's no way that any of us lesser folk could possible be able to understand what he and mink are talking about because, well, we're just not enlightened enough. afterall, santurelle actually SPOKE with a few black folks in his c l a a a a a a s s.
none of us who may have grown up in black neighborhoods with vast daily interaction with blacks could possibly refute what santurelle learned in his c l a a a a a a s s. nope, no way at all!
even if i told you that in all my YEARS living in black communities that no one ever mentioned slavery as a reason for their plight, you couldn't take my word for it because santurelle has already told us how it really is. and he is not to be questioned. afterall, he did take a c l a a a a a a s s.
[/sarcasm]
santurelle and mink, you don't know jack about this subject. "book learning" will never substitute for "real world" experience. never.
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Post by subdjoe on Mar 27, 2009 17:41:56 GMT -5
"santurelle and mink, you don't know jack about this subject. "book learning" will never substitute for "real world" experience. never. "
And, the book learnin' in the classes, unless it is a specialty upper division class, will only parrot the "white men are evil oppressors" party line. It won't get into the real history, jsut the broad, correct outlines.
Oh, and Saunterelle, what would you say to a black person who knows his ancestors owned black slaves (not family members, but actual working slaves), treated them and used them about as a white slave owner would, and those same ancestors fought for the Confederacy? What would your vaunted "African American experience in America" class say about that? Did it even touch on it?
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Post by saunterelle on Mar 27, 2009 18:33:42 GMT -5
The books we read were written by black people who had a lifetime of personal experience.
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Post by subdjoe on Mar 27, 2009 19:01:30 GMT -5
Search for "The Slave Narratives", a WPA project to record the words of those who had really been slaves. Yes, there are some horror stories, but there are as many who thougth of those as good days, and were part of the family of their owners.
I've taken classes of the sort you are talking about, Saunterelle, and they push the political agenda of "white men are evil," and the books chosen for them reflect that. Not the most unbiased way to learn.
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Post by saunterelle on Mar 27, 2009 19:05:11 GMT -5
The class did not teach that the white man is evil but it also didn't try to justify slavery like it sounds like you are doing.
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