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Post by The Big Dog on Jul 15, 2008 16:06:24 GMT -5
And you've clearly missed my point about the New Yorker cover. I know it is a liberal magazine and that's why it was meant as satire. They felt comfortable printing it because of the ridiculousness of the accusations against the Obamas. So why did you label it a "Republican smear tactic"? About as evident as river mud. There are an entire host of positions, issues and situations from his life that Senator Obama has never made clear. He is, in many ways, an empty slate wrapped in a very stylish package. While I appreciate you riding to the defense of your man, he and his wife have got a lot of explaining to do. In her case about far more than a thesis at Princeton. |
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Post by saunterelle on Jul 15, 2008 17:13:33 GMT -5
I said: "What's happening is that the Republican's smear tactics (as illustrated by the New Yorker cover) are beginning to have an effect on the many naive voters across our country who also fell for the "swiftboating" of John Kerry in 2004."
I'm saying that the New Yorker cover is illustrating the ridiculousness of the Republican's concerns (that's the satire). not that it in itself is a smear tactic.
"About as evident as river mud. There are an entire host of positions, issues and situations from his life that Senator Obama has never made clear. He is, in many ways, an empty slate wrapped in a very stylish package."
Why don't you try seeking out answers to your questions instead of parroting the line of the Right. Try an objective website like Snopes.com or, better yet, read one of Obama's book if you want to learn more about the man.
"he and his wife have got a lot of explaining to do. In her case about far more than a thesis at Princeton."
What do they have to address that they haven't addressed already? And what are your concerns about Michelle Obama? If we can air the specific issues here, I would be happy to do the research and address them.
And face it, you were wrong about the madrassa.
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Post by The Big Dog on Jul 15, 2008 18:36:21 GMT -5
I'm saying that the New Yorker cover is illustrating the ridiculousness of the Republican's concerns (that's the satire). not that it in itself is a smear tactic. Ok. I can buy that. Thanks for the clarification. Snopes, while a fountain of information, is not politically neutral so their objectivity as relates to a candidate that some there are on the record as supporting is questionable. And reading the Senator's own words are supposed to be objective? When he hasn't been able to keep his stories straight? Not that Senator McCain has either in some respects, but really... shouldn't an objective analysis conclude that the Senator's thoughts on himself might be somewhat.... self serving? I'm not parroting anyone's line. I am asking questions about the man and his beliefs concerning political and social issues that face this country. It is part of the process of electing presidents. After all, we elect them, we do not coronate them.[/quote] Bill Ayers, Reverend Wright, Rezko, cut rage mortgages, the real deal about the madrassa, Michelle's admission to Princeton... let's start with those And I would submit that there is insufficient evidence on the public record to determine whether I am or am not. Personal assertions aside, because a politician running for office can and pretty much does say just about anything, in this age of Islamic sponsored terrorism I think this country has a right to know just what went on inside what the candidate himself has admitted was a school in Indonesia the curriculum of which was based in the teachings of Islam. The campaign doesn't call it a madrassa, and CNN parroted that after Senator Clinton's campaign first raised the charge. So what was that school? |
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Post by Mink on Jul 15, 2008 20:20:20 GMT -5
Yes, the reality will hit home when people must remember where we are now and if we still want to stay the same route. It is just hype right now regarding the run to the election in November. Frankly, I don't see how Mccain can even come close..... Back in 1972, when Nixon beat George McGovern in a 49 state to 1 landslide the eminent film critic (and die hard leftist) Pauline Kael opined... Now while I don't necessarily expect a massive McCain landslide, I still think that, given the current polling, that it is Obama's race to lose and that McCain is most certainly within striking distance. If the Obama campaign, and the candidate himself, continues to mis-step and mis-speak as much as they have so far... and the Democrats continue to offer nothing more than viturperative attacks on a termed out President as their platform, I think it quite possible that we could look in here on the morning of November 5th and find Mink writing the same thing that Ms. Kael did all those years ago.  1972? We are in 2008 here Big Dog, different times (predicaments) , now with much different people. This is hype and as saunterelle pointed out, "some people are reacting to the right-wing smear" and maybe some don't understand Obama's yes vote on the FISA bill. Personally a close poll only shows people are nervous, however with the banks in trouble, the never-ending calling for troops in the Middle East, unemployment, our healthcare, housing foreclosures and unfinished explanations to what exactly has happened with the corrupt current administration, people will wake up by November.......Mccain, I don't think is strong enough to handle it. He constantly misspeaks and he puts his stamp on the failings of the present administration, not to mention, he has his own personal problems. I have given him credit for working across the aisle in the past, however, if he couldn't speak up in 2000, how could he now? He is too old and it is only July. |
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Post by The Big Dog on Jul 15, 2008 20:34:13 GMT -5
1972? We are in 2008 here Big Dog, different times (predicaments) , now with much different people. Apparently the rhetorical concept of analogy has gone the way of the dodo. Sad. It's a presidential election. They are all about hype. I hope they will wake up, and come to the realization that four years of tax increases and more government spending / control (the Obama plan) will cause more harm than it will good. Like those years he spent as a POW didn't temper any steel he already had in his backbone. Oh wait... that even before 1972 so I guess it doesn't matter, does it? Have you ever heard Senator Obama go out unscripted? You think Bush can't put together a sentence? Wait until you get a load of Barack. Okay... credit for working across the aisle. Show me where in Senator Obama's voting record, and take it back to the Illinois State House if you like, that he has worked "across the aisle". What do you mean "if he couldn't speak up in 2000"? What are you talking about? |
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Post by anonymousperson on Jul 15, 2008 20:54:22 GMT -5
Ok, remember that gay gossip message board I told you guys about on the PD, where I hang out, and politics comes up?
Well, there *were* Obamaniacs there, a lot of them, but also a lot of Hilbots.
Now there's not a lot of Obamaniacs there because the strong rumor is that Obama is going to choose Sam Nunn as his VP, and there's a bunch of news articles that say that.
One can post anonymously on that board, so I do, and I really think this, Obama is making not just a right turn, but a full on far right turn. For instance his right turn on abortion (now I happen to be pro-choice), but I was kind of shocked at what he said.
And his "admiration" for Ronald Reagan. Again, I was never a Reaganite (I think he's one reason for the illegal alien problem, and it seemed to seriously INCREASE under Reagan, although I know it goes back to Ted Kennedy), but it was just odd.
And then, well, Sam Nunn, who is like a Dixiecrat. A far right Dixiecrat, much more conservative than McC for sure.
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Post by Mink on Jul 15, 2008 21:00:25 GMT -5
Big Dog: "Apparently the rhetorical concept of analogy has gone the way of the dodo. Sad." ________________________________________________ Sorry, not biting.....you guys never relate to analogies other than your own, so don't try with me.....it's getting old, speaking of sad. Big Dog: "I hope they will wake up, and come to the realization that four years of tax increases and more government spending / control (the Obama plan) will cause more harm than it will good." _________________________________________________ Tell me what part of good is happening with the current plan? Big Dog: "It's a presidential election. They are all about hype." _________________________________________________ My point exactly. Big Dog: "Like those years he spent as a POW didn't temper any steel he already had in his backbone. Oh wait... that even before 1972 so I guess it doesn't matter, does it?" ___________________________________________________ It matters that mccain is a vet, was a good soldier, defended the country.......and so did Kerry. Big Dog: "Have you ever heard Senator Obama go out unscripted? You think Bush can't put together a sentence? Wait until you get a load of Barack." ________________________________________________ Look, even if you could provide links, the fact that you accepted an idiot gives me the right to support one that could be scripted. Big Dog: "Okay... credit for working across the aisle. Show me where in Senator Obama's voting record, and take it back to the Illinois State House if you like, that he has worked "across the aisle". " _________________________________________________ I love your selective editing here BD. However, since you asked, I will need to look into it further since I know you won't. You don't want anymore "brownie" points disclosed.....he's got too many!!  |
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Post by jgaffney on Jul 16, 2008 11:45:26 GMT -5
Mink sez...
Ah, yes, John Kerry. The haughty, French-looking senator from Massachusettes who, by the way, served in Vietnam, came home to disparage the troops in testimony before Congress and throw his medals (we think) over the fence, only to re-emerge as a war hero when the situation demanded it. I'll repeat it here for you: Four months in country, three Purple Hearts, and he never spent a day on sick call. No comparison.
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Post by The Big Dog on Jul 16, 2008 11:53:35 GMT -5
Tell me what part of good is happening with the current plan? Again... what is Bush running for? Why does the left continue to attack him when he and his administration will be out of office next January, never to return? A new president, regardless of party, brings a new team and new ideas. Why are you not debating those? Gaffney answered far more concisely than I could. Leave it at that. Let us know what you find. The entire nation is waiting. And how, pray tell, do you know that I haven't and am not simply drawing you into a trap of debate? I'm the guy who does research... remember? |
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Post by jgaffney on Jul 16, 2008 11:59:02 GMT -5
Mink sez...The liberal mantra, condensed here for easy reading. Let's take those items one at a time: - the banks in trouble
Thank you, Chuck Schumer.
- the never-ending calling for troops in the Middle East
It seems to me that the armed forces are not having any trouble meeting their recruitment goals. In fact, Iraq is going so well that troops are starting to return. This is very bad news for Democrats, who had pinned their 2008 hopes on an inglorious defeat in Iraq.
- unemployment
Full employment is defined as 5% unemployed because some people are always between jobs, and some people are the "chronically unemployed." Our current unemployment hovers around 5.5%, in stark contrast to the 11+% unemployment under Carter.
- our healthcare
America has the best healthcare system in the world. Anyone can walk into an emergency room and get treated - state and federal law says that an emergency room can't turn anyone away. People travel from other countries with socialized medicine to get treated here.
- housing foreclosures
Those people who either (a) lied about their income on thier loan application; or (b) signed up for a loan with an increasing interest rate were gambling that the housing market would continue to go up. When the market did not sustain the increases that had been common for 6 years, where was the talk about welcoming the return to affordability?
- unfinished explanations to what exactly has happened with the corrupt current administration
In marked contrast, of course, with the previous corrupt administration. Keep beating that drum - you're not getting any traction with it. Other than occasional headlines from Henry Waxman, this is a yawner.
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Post by saunterelle on Jul 16, 2008 11:59:25 GMT -5
ooooo jgaffney.... haughty and French looking. LOL. The fact is that he defended our country to the best of his ability just like McCain. He had every right to speak out against a war that he feels is unjust (as did most of the country) just as some of our current soldiers choose to speak out against the Iraq war.
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Post by The Big Dog on Jul 16, 2008 12:18:34 GMT -5
ooooo jgaffney.... haughty and French looking. LOL. The fact is that he defended our country to the best of his ability just like McCain. As above... four months in country, three Purple Hearts and not a single day on the sick list. As compared to over twenty combat missions in a bomber flying through the most heavily defended skies in history, getting shot down and spending more than half a decade as a prisoner of war, suffering unspeakable cruelty at the hands of his captors. Yeah, thats a strong comparison alright. He had every right to speak out truthfully. The fact, however, is that much of his speaking out was a bunch of outright lies and fabrications. While you rail about Kerry being "swiftboated", the truth still is that through the Winter Soldier program he helped perpetrate a campaign of deliberate propaganda which is still being parroted to this day. |
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