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Post by Mink on Aug 2, 2008 14:35:49 GMT -5
TNG: "mink would have you believe these ladies were at one time middle class. horsecrap! these folks are NOT middle class."
TNG, please re-read the link. I didn't make that up-it says that she was brought up in the middle class.
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Aug 2, 2008 14:58:29 GMT -5
TNG, you wrote:
"i grew up around people like this. i grew up in this type of "housing." i've seen it year after year after year. the same people doing the same thing. having babies, collecting checks, eating potato chips and fast food, driving nice cars. some do escape (me) but it is difficult because they realize they've got it made in the shade if they stay. why get up and go to work everyday to make $8 or 10 bucks and hour when you can sit at home and watch TV and get paid more?!?!?
___________________________________________________
I remember that your childhood was rough since you'd posted it before. Some of us do pay attention. Do you think your past creates a bias in judgment? Let me back up and say I agree with you that many people use the system and it is a crime for sure. I do know however that in some situations people legitimately need a boost to get back up on their feet since they are trapped by circumstances, especially single parents (unrelated to the story). Please, before you hit the smite link, give it some thought.
If I had more time I would give some examples, and if you're interested I will later.
When I'd asked you for enlightenment I was wondering which people in this thread were in the fat heffer/loser category since you didn't name names.
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Post by digger on Aug 2, 2008 22:59:01 GMT -5
I agree with Harpman1 above. There are can'ts and wont's. These people in the article are definately won'ts. There is a kid on my street who's shaping up to be won't. Lives at home. Pusing 20 years old, won't to college, won't get a job, won't get a driver's license. Won't mow his single mother's lawn, won't do her trimming, won't walk the dog. My six year old has more ambition. I have no sympathy for the ladies in this article or those who won't get off their backside to at least try. That single mother needs to tell lazy boy to get off his duff and pursue a productive path for his future, and if not, show him the DOOR! McDonald's is always hiring, at least it was when I was young and needed a job. |
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Post by Mink on Aug 2, 2008 23:06:38 GMT -5
Not too much anymore digger. My son applied at McDonald's and they said they would have so many hours for him....blah,blah.
He called every day, with "nothing yet" response. Times are tough, more people who need employment and not enough positions to go around.
Another point made regarding this thread is the lack of a car. Most places around here have public transportation.....don't know what the situation is for Ohioans.
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 2, 2008 23:33:56 GMT -5
minks says, "Times are tough, more people who need employment and not enough positions to go around."
and you think the flood of illegal aliens is helping matters? pulheeeeze! when you patronize a McD's or BK or the like who do you encounter behind the counter? exactly.
therea re however jobs out there for those who truly want to work. the operative phrase here being "want to work." my kids work and my daughter even holds 2 jobs because she wants $$$. again, it is too easy to sit on your duff and blame the sytem rather than getting up off your duff and working.
when i was 17 (the age of the daughter in this article) i didn't have a car either. i never asked for a ride. i rode my bike about 4 miles to work and when it was broken, guess what? i walked to work! walking a mile or so to work would be a good thing for that girl in the article.
as far as public transportation goes, back east it is actually BETTER than out here. this girl has no excuse and neither does her lazy ass mom.
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Post by Mink on Aug 2, 2008 23:48:42 GMT -5
TNG: "and you think the flood of illegal aliens is helping matters? pulheeeeze! when you patronize a McD's or BK or the like who do you encounter behind the counter? exactly."
First of all, I don't eat fast food. I do home cooking and make my lunches for work.
TNG: as far as public transportation goes, back east it is actually BETTER than out here. this girl has no excuse and neither does her lazy ass mom."
So you live in Ohio, what was the city, 40 miles from Toledo?
As for our county, our public transportation works and good for your daughter TNG! My kids are productive too, but we are discussing this family, with all the variables or lack of them.
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 2, 2008 23:50:31 GMT -5
sometimes mink, i think we speak two different languages.
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Post by Mink on Aug 2, 2008 23:57:21 GMT -5
TNG: and you think the flood of illegal aliens is helping matters?"
Where did this come from? When did I ever say that?
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Post by subdjoe on Aug 3, 2008 0:03:45 GMT -5
The woman who is the center of this piece grew up in a middle class family - her father was an auto worker for 45 years according to the story. She seems to have dropped out of high school (never got a diploma) at some point. Had a kid when she was 21. According to the story she has NEVER had a job. That just MIGHT have something to do with her not being middle class, don't you think? You know, under educated, likely a single mother (no mention of a husband in the piece). And supposedly in an auto crash 17 years ago that left her both depressed and somehow physically disabled (it would be nice to know about that disability and if it has been properly diagnosed). True, more information would be good, but there is quite a bit there if you bother to look beyond the main sob story.
Read the stuff in the link to the story on the NPR page. Read it all and think about it. And, what did she do between when she dropped out of school (or mabye flunked out) and when she was in that crash?
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Aug 3, 2008 10:50:04 GMT -5
subdjoe, so this young woman drops out of high school, has a baby possibly trying to do the "right" thing instead of having an abortion and then is injured. Yes, she's made some pretty bad choices and now has to find a way out. I wonder if we were to look at this differently maybe we can see how difficult it would really be to rise above.
Who will hire her without education, McDonald's? Ok, let's start there. She's making $8.00 an hour, now how can she afford rent, daycare, food etc.on $8.00/hour? She can't. She's been injured, can't make enough money due to lack of education, and couldn't afford daycare anyway. In my mind without additional resources it would be very difficult to get out of that trap. To add to that say the child is old enough to become a latch-key this woman now doesn't have a work history and she is now "older," overweight, and has battled depression to add to her resume'. Would you hire her?
It is my opinion that if we spend the money to educate, and support people in the beginning of their downward spiral, before they give up on themselves, or society deems them unworthy they can become productive citizens and give back to society. If nothing is done to stop the cycle we have stories like this one over and over.
TNG, just to cover myself here, I know some people would NEVER want that opportunity and would find a way to abuse it, but I believe in many situations change can be made, and if not all benefits should cease.
And to further cover myself, I have worked my entire life and have my own hard luck stories to share (we all do) just in case there might be some confusion about my fat heffer/loser status. Oh, and for the fat part? Laughable...
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Post by subdjoe on Aug 3, 2008 11:19:04 GMT -5
If the numbers in the story are accurate, she didn't have her daughter (no mention of other kids) until she was about 21 (she is now 40, the daughter is 19, she was in the crash 17 years ago). So, what was she doing between whenever she left school and she had her daughter? Figure that is a 3 to 5 year gap between her schooling and when she had her kid. What was she doing?
How about maybe leave her kid with family (they all seem to have stayed in the same area, after all) while she works? Maybe she has to take a swing or graveyard shift to do this, OK, so what? It's a job.
As far as "It is my opinion that if we spend the money to educate, and support people in the beginning of their downward spiral, before they give up on themselves, or society deems them unworthy they can become productive citizens and give back to society. If nothing is done to stop the cycle we have stories like this one over and over." I agree. BUT it is up to the individual to SEEK HELP. It was her CHOICE to not finish high school. It was her CHOICE to not go to a community college. It was her CHOICE to not seek alternatives when she dropped out (or whatever). WE can't go door to door and drag people into the appropriate agencies for help. THEY have to get off their butts and get the help before they get in too deep.
Yes, there needs to be more help for people truely unable to work. There needs to be help for people who have had a run of bad luck. But here we seem to have a whole extended family living on public assistance. And some of them are telling the 19 year old to have a kid so she can get more money (to her credit, she rejects that idea). But it seems that those giving that advice know how to work the system so they don't have to work. But even that advice - bring yet another child into the world to live in a one parent family. And just so you can get a few bucks a month more. Don't you see anything wrong with that mentality?
ADDED - yes, she may have been trying to do 'the right thing' when she had her daughter 19 years ago. But, if I have her situation right - unmarried, uneducated, no job, no job skills - the right thing would have been to give the child up for adoption.
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Aug 3, 2008 14:17:05 GMT -5
If the numbers in the story are accurate, she didn't have her daughter (no mention of other kids) until she was about 21 (she is now 40, the daughter is 19, she was in the crash 17 years ago). So, what was she doing between whenever she left school and she had her daughter? Figure that is a 3 to 5 year gap between her schooling and when she had her kid. What was she doing? I think we know that by the birth of her child! ;D Sorry... |
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