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Post by ferrous on Aug 10, 2008 10:41:08 GMT -5
This one was a bit close to home:
A 22-year-old Santa Rosa man is being held in a local hospital after a prolonged struggle Saturday with law enforcement officials from three agencies.
In the aftermath of the altercation, three Sonoma County sheriff's deputies were transported by ambulance to a hospital for treatment of numerous bites and scratches and exhaustion and then released.
Juan Pablo Gonzales suffered unspecified injuries after he attempted to elude a sheriff's deputy who responded to a call shortly after 1 p.m. of a potentially inebriated male at West Avenue and Sebastopol Road, according to the Sheriff's Department.
The suspect was detained by the first arriving deputy, but then fled on foot. Additional deputies arrived and joined in the pursuit. A Taser was fired at the suspect during the chase, but it was unsuccessful because of his bulky clothing.
The suspect was tackled on Dutton Avenue near Freitas Drive (note. that's over a half mile away,) where a large crowd gathered, according to a Sheriff's Department news release.
The three deputies were unable to subdue him physically or with Taser strikes. The suspect bit one deputy three times.
When do LEO's have the option to use deadly force in subduing a suspect that is violently resisting arrest?
I would imagine that when a large crowd gathered, this option was now, not available.
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Post by subdjoe on Aug 10, 2008 11:04:51 GMT -5
My question is why didn't those stalwarts who were standing around pitch in to HELP the LEOs? What the hell is wrong with people?
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Post by The Big Dog on Aug 10, 2008 12:51:30 GMT -5
I would wager that in that neighborhood the crowd was largely hostile to law enforcement. They were probably also being told by the deputies to stay out of it. They tried to taze him but his heavy sports parka (a guess on my part but likely the case) kept the probes from getting needed skin contact. I would guess that after running and fighting a half mile the deputies might not have been willing to break out batons for fear of: ** the suspect gaining control of one and escalating it immediately to a lethal force scenario ** inciting the crowd with a beat down, however much it might have been justified. When one finds himself outnumbered in "Indian Country" one needs to keep not only his powder dry but his options open. Beanbag rounds from a shotgun (SRPD deploys these in their cars) or pepperballs from a paintball gun (don't know if any agency in SoCo is using these yet, but they should) might have been a good force option once there were sufficient officers on scene to keep the crowd at bay. Swarming this idiot, as seems to have been done, was probably the best potential resolution given the circumstances. Deadly force... while I can't speak directly to Sheriff's Office policy, in general the suspect has to present a threat of life ending violence to the deputies, or to others if he escapes, for lethal force to be deployed. Sometimes the police just have to dispense an ass whipping, and typically some of the police get their asses whipped in the process. It's part of the game and it happens to us all at some point or another. Up to and including yours truly.....  |
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Post by The New Guy on Aug 10, 2008 12:55:24 GMT -5
"Juan Pablo Gonzales"
i really didn't need to read much more after that.
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Post by Mink on Aug 19, 2008 23:10:19 GMT -5
Wow, Big Dog, what a thing to think about for cops going into a situation....yikes!
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Len
Apprentice Member
Posts: 74
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Post by Len on Aug 21, 2008 13:54:41 GMT -5
Yeah, Mink. I am amazed that he well outlined all possibilities that are open to our local authorities. They need all the support they can muster. I wouldn't wish that job on anyone, and am glad they're there to do it, all while showing such restraint as well!
Elsewhere came across Cop Watch Santa Rosa fella that was arrested and surprised at such! From what little I could gather there was a riot situation in a Santa Rosa park a few months ago, and he was trying to "interview" and film the folks there. I wasn't there, but speculate that he was interfering with a cops trying to control two Latino factions that were doing some kind of man dance with various tools of personal destruction. Again, from what I gather he was either a professional agitator utilizing communist tactics developed in US during the 1930s or a true idiot of the cloth, probably asking questions like, "Officer, what right do you have pummeling that advancing individual who has a stick in his hand since he has not yet struck anyone with it"? All this while surrounded by a hundred other young Latin males looking to "party". Yes, Mink, I would not wish that job on anyone (without a vest & shotgun back up at least)
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Post by The Big Dog on Aug 21, 2008 21:01:19 GMT -5
Wow, Big Dog, what a thing to think about for cops going into a situation....yikes! It might come as a surprise to some, but a good officer thinks about all options... on each and every call and contact. Because you never know what way it's going to go when the contact starts. Every call needs plan A, and a plan B if it starts to go off the blueprint from plan A. The men and women we hire to go out and do the job are (generally speaking) good people and good at what they do. For every splashy instance that hits the papers there are five hundred or more that happen that no one other than those involved ever will know about. |
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Post by Mink on Aug 21, 2008 23:23:42 GMT -5
Wow, Big Dog, what a thing to think about for cops going into a situation....yikes! It might come as a surprise to some, but a good officer thinks about all options... on each and every call and contact. Because you never know what way it's going to go when the contact starts. Every call needs plan A, and a plan B if it starts to go off the blueprint from plan A. The men and women we hire to go out and do the job are (generally speaking) good people and good at what they do. For every splashy instance that hits the papers there are five hundred or more that happen that no one other than those involved ever will know about. Big Dog, I may disagree with most of your political stances, but thank goodness you were out there looking out for us ( decent law-abiding citizens)  |
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Post by Mink on Aug 21, 2008 23:28:45 GMT -5
Len posted: " Yes, Mink, I would not wish that job on anyone (without a vest & shotgun back up at least) " Hi len, welcome to the forum!! Enjoy your stay here Definitely, this is no job for the faint of heart or trigger happy sort. |
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Post by jgaffney on Aug 27, 2008 13:41:09 GMT -5
Big Dog sez...
1. No plan of action ever survives the first contact with the enemy.
2. In deciding a plan of action, the enemy gets a vote, too.
People like us can sleep safe at night because there are people like this ready to fight the bad guys. Look up the difference between sheep, wolves and sheep dogs.
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Post by The Big Dog on Aug 27, 2008 22:02:55 GMT -5
And there is a distinct difference between military operations, which I believe your maxims are associated with, and law enforcement operations on the street. 1. Plans of action certainly do survive first contact. Not all, but most. 2. The "enemy" does not get a vote. That statement assumes that the enemy is involved in the planning when he is not. He gets the opportunity to disrupt the plan once contact is made. The job of the officer is to retain control, stay on plan and work to successful resolution while being able to modify the plan, or switch to an alternate (more than one alternate available in a critical incident is vital) in progress as the tactical situation develops. George Orwell wrote that about police officers; a lot of people misattribute it to being descriptive of soldiers. I've long believed exactly what Orwell wrote and, for the record, the complete quote attributed to Orwell is: And I hope that you aren't pointing this old sheep dog to look up the difference. |
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Post by ferrous on Aug 30, 2008 10:29:09 GMT -5
This quote seems to have been misattributed to George Orwell.
Orwell quoted one of Kiplings poems ""Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep"
Another reference is found in his ""Notes on Nationalism"...
Those who "abjure" violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf."
The quote : "We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf." seems to carry a much more profound cadence.
I can find no reference that he was referring to police rather than soldiers.
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