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Post by Mink on Aug 19, 2008 1:16:59 GMT -5
Liberal cheap shot, au contraire. Since we are discussing school, it is only fitting that the teacher show the lesson through proper usage and demonstrate, no? I happen to agree with TNG in the fact that we didn't have computers in our classes, nor did we have as many resources that came "easy".
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Post by subdjoe on Aug 19, 2008 8:15:42 GMT -5
No, liberal cheap shot I said, liberal cheap shot it was. Care to address his point that a big part of it is teachers who have no clue about how to teach?
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Post by The Big Dog on Aug 19, 2008 12:32:53 GMT -5
And what does the oh so tolerant Democrat majority in Assembly do when one of it's members strays from the party line, for trying to support her constituency? Off to the doghouse!!! Although I suppose in a different time and place she might have lost her head, so I guess we've moved forward slightly in the legislative process.
Oh and I love the comments by District 1 member Patty Berg... sounds almost Stalinst, doesn't she? Doesn't she represent from about Windsor north?
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Post by Mink on Aug 19, 2008 22:31:18 GMT -5
No, liberal cheap shot I said, liberal cheap shot it was. Care to address his point that a big part of it is teachers who have no clue about how to teach? I believe I did subdjoe.....save your ammo  |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Aug 20, 2008 9:19:42 GMT -5
A few thoughts regarding schools: First of all I don't think computers should be used as a main teaching tool, especially for elementary kids. I wonder how many elementary kids even know how to do research at a library? If anything extra money could be used for field trips to the library, or museums etc. I think computers and video games are detrimental for kids when they are still developing neurons and pathways in their brains. Basic word processing, or non stimulating games are less devastating but some of the hyper high impulse games forever change the way the brain reacts to information in young children. Regarding the give respect at all costs, I don't think it's a bad idea to sustain respect. but if a student has shown disrespectful behavior then I believe a teacher should teach the difference between courtesy, and inappropriate behavior and if the behavior continues consequences should follow. Many schools, mostly private, teach conflict resolution instead of labeling a child. For example, I know of a parent who sends her son to a very good public school, her son does act out some, and he and another boy (age 6) got into a conflict, the end result? the school gave both boys a school imposed "retraining order." What the? They should instead teach the children to work out their frustrations and find a solution to their problems instead of hitting. The children have learned nothing by the schools actions and they don't have any more tools then they did before just angry parents, and a message that they are so bad they need a restraining order. Good grief! Plus, I think the biggest problem is that kids (elementary) are expected to learn at the same rate and the truth is kids don't develop at the same rate. So, if "little Johnny" is immature, or has a learning deficit he usually doesn't get the support he needs, instead he is made to feel inferior and that sets the tone for his self-esteem and learning potential for the rest of his life. The school system FAILS in this regard and I think it is criminal. Testing for children that don't quite fit in rarely get the appropriate testing and help they need because the school/mental health system has been cut to bare bones. (And, yes I think it i a school's responsibility to call out a problem since that's where a child spends his time learning and the teacher should notice the difficulties based on training and experience.) If testing is done it is minimal and only gives snapshot of the child's problems, not a full spectrum which would identify the root of the problem. If a teacher knows how a child who is struggling is processing information then they can teach accordingly. It is a win-win, but unfortunately public schools do not have the funding to help identify why a child who isn't cookie cutter is struggling to keep up. I've been trying to finish this over the last couple of days on a hit and miss basis, I just haven't had the time to fluff my points... Anyway, I won't be able to respond for a few days have fun debating!! |
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Post by bolverk on Aug 20, 2008 16:02:30 GMT -5
Well, there is that loophole for the yacht owners that has been conveniently overlooked by the Republicans that needs to be addressed again......  Oh brother, class warfare again. That amount would not even be a drop in the bucket. |
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Post by bolverk on Aug 20, 2008 16:09:38 GMT -5
Perhaps the real solution to our education problem is in how we educate our educators. When the United States first put a primary emphasis on education, after WWII, teaching was a highly paid profession. It attracted people with degrees in the fields they were actually teaching. Now, teachers only need a degree in education, though some have degrees in other fields.
I used to work with a former teacher who had a teaching degree and a business degree. She said the teaching degree was much easier to get, but the business degree earned her more money.
Some statistics point out that many of our teachers graduated from the bottom part of their high school class, before going on to get a degree in education. That says a lot right there. We do need to pay our teachers more, and we need to get the ones from the upper parts of their high school classes. They should also have a degree in their primary subject, like math. We see a diminishing return in our students because the teachers who do stay these days just are not as qualified as the teachers were 25 and 30 years ago.
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Post by Mink on Aug 22, 2008 0:19:51 GMT -5
I think I am agreeing with you here bloverk, but this would require more money into the school system, which is being debated.
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Len
Apprentice Member
Posts: 74
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Post by Len on Aug 22, 2008 6:45:50 GMT -5
No more money!
A top down dressing of the system would help, and by more than a little.
Is there something new in geometry? Why new books? That industry is responsible for a ton of money and yet Johnny can't read even more! Our class was 50 in number for the first eight years, and now it is half that, however English is becoming a second untaught language. The focus should be put upon the parents, mostly.
We ask the schools to do too much, that parents and their "support" groups did (church, neighbors, extended family), used to do. And we are becoming more isolated from such.
Bah! I am going to go work out! Maybe this pissy mood shall to pass!
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Post by bolverk on Aug 22, 2008 11:08:45 GMT -5
I think I am agreeing with you here bloverk, but this would require more money into the school system, which is being debated. Well, actually it wouldn't, if we cut the fat. There are just way to many administrators at the top. And, smaller classes is a failure, so why move it up the ladder. The whole system could benefit from a reorganization, rather then more money. Keep the good teachers and dump the bad ones. Dump the second vice principal, you only need one. |
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Post by bolverk on Aug 22, 2008 11:14:59 GMT -5
I agree with that. A top down dressing of the system would help, and by more than a little. It certainly would. Trim the administrative fat, it is too costly and not as effective as it needs to be. Is there something new in geometry? Why new books? That industry is responsible for a ton of money and yet Johnny can't read even more! Our class was 50 in number for the first eight years, and now it is half that, however English is becoming a second untaught language. The focus should be put upon the parents, mostly. English should be a requirement to move beyond a certain point. It is not right that we should spend extra money on people who do not want to teach their kids to speak our language, that is the responsibility of the parent, you are correct. And I would go even further to say that if a child needs remedial English language instruction on a basic level to comprehend the work, the parents of that child should pay the expense out of pocket. We ask the schools to do too much, that parents and their "support" groups did (church, neighbors, extended family), used to do. And we are becoming more isolated from such. I am not sure what you mean by that. Bah! I am going to go work out! Maybe this pissy mood shall to pass! Have a good day at work. |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Aug 30, 2008 14:09:06 GMT -5
len said:
"We ask the schools to do too much, that parents and their "support" groups did (church, neighbors, extended family), used to do. And we are becoming more isolated from such."
Families have changed in many ways. To start, extended families are scattered all over the place. WAY back when families tended to live in the same town, or near by not anymore. Many families are run by a single parent and unless they sit on their butts and collect welfare they are out working to put food on the table and don't have the time, or energy to assist their children like they would prefer, or their children need. It used to be if children were home alone they could play with neighborhood kids and parents didn't have to worry about gang affiliation, or neighborhood homes unattended by a parent in their absence. Kids today are often left to entertain themselves in a hostile environment without positive direction and guidance. This is a reality for many children and if the schools don't offer after school programs, or help for children to succeed what are we to do? Nothing?
If schools had more monies available it would help to benefit the classrooms with better teaching tools, and what about field trips? Kids in private schools go on MANY day field trips, over nights, and even go out of the country to experience other cultures and learn first hand about history.
The class divide is widening, and for the kids that don't have a supportive home life, or who have special needs they are paying with their futures and not by choice. I think it is beyond sad that so many people either aren't aware, or just don't care. And, in the end we all pay for the dumbing down of our children!
CA schools rank 48th (last time I checked), and personally I think that statistic is enough proof that this state is in serious trouble, and so are our children...
(I agree we need teachers who are top notch, and most of all who give a damn about the kids they teach.)
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