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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 11:49:00 GMT -5
"We've got to make sure that people who have more money help the people who have less money" What part of this quote do you not understand? We are employing this philosophy right now. Your tax dollars are funding welfare and other social programs. Soon it will be universal health care too. I for one feel pretty good about that. One, I understand that quote perfectly. Obama feels he is the moral judge of us all. How can someone who lies as often as he does be a moral judge of anything? If you hate Bush's lies why do you like Obama's? That is called hypocrisy. Obama will make you pay or put you away, that simple. Let's talk welfare. What happened to the welfare to work goals? If the roles of welfare are decreasing, why is spending increasing? Got an answer for that? No, you don't. It so happens, that is the area of work I do, getting people off welfare and back to work. So, I have knowledge about the subject you lack. Do you even know why social security was created? I do, and it is an abject failure. And you want universal health care. That is socialism. We had better health care in this country before health insurance, which has driven up costs to handle administrative needs only. Health insurance is not the same as home owners insurance or automobile insurance you know. You can not insure against getting sick, it doesn't work, it is a scam. With a car or your home, you insure against damage, it is not the same. Not to mention you are asking the same group of people who mismanage their fiduciary responsibility in Social Security, which is is going broke, to manage our health care. If they can't get Social Security right, what makes you think they can do a better job with health care. Not to mention that it is a huge portion of our economy, and you want to hand it over to a bunch of bozo's who can not make it in the real world? Give me a break. |
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Post by jgaffney on Jun 10, 2008 11:53:53 GMT -5
Saunterelle sez...Please follow along here. I'll say this slowly, and I'll try to use simple words. Congress is the only body with the power to spend.If you want to get upset about the deficit and the level of spending, why don't you criticise the Farm Bill or the Katrina Bailout? Here's a good place to start your education about the real problem with government spending.
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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 12:30:26 GMT -5
It is truly amazing how many people in this country that have not a single clue how our government really works.
Here is the exact law for you saunterelle, taken straight from our Constitution of the United States:
Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential Veto
All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.
Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law.
Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill.
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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 12:32:27 GMT -5
The President does not have the power to create a bill which is meant to raise money, it is that simple. He is not the driving force behind our economy. It is currently the Democratically controlled congress, and has been for the last two years, which coincides with the slide in our economy.
Why do you think the Congressional Job Approval Rating is so low? I quote the democrats, "it's the economy stupid."
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Post by mrroqout on Jun 10, 2008 13:35:57 GMT -5
It will provide working class people some much needed relief after 8 years of Republican rule. Again with the "Working Class" bullshi*t, I WORK my a$$ off to have what I do. I have worked EVERYDAY since I was 16 including PAYING MY OWN WAY THROUGH COLLEGE for what I have now. And your telling me that the GOVERNMENT FORCING me to GIVE AWAY MORE of what I RIGHTFULLY EARNED MY DAMN SELF. Should now go to losers who play the "less fortunate card"? Listen it doesn't get MUCH LESS FORTUNATE THAN BEING BORN AN AMERICAN INDIAN ON AN INDIAN "RESERVATION". And I am doing JUST FINE in fact according to you, I am wealthy and should be content to give away what belongs to my family? Becuase I am not, according to you "Working Class" I work 20 hours a day 6-7 days a week sounds like working class to me!! And you HONESTLY believe this is NOT Socialist? MORAL IMPERATIVE and GOVERNMENT MANDATED (SOCIALIST) are QUITE Different. And man o man a nice SOCIALIZED healthcare system like the MISERABLE Failure in Canada sounds great. Can't wait to DIE OF whatever is ailing me while I WAIT FOR SURGERY. You notice wealthy Canadians come to the USA for IMMEDIATE healthcare..not SOCIALIZED waiting... Oh and one more thing lying liar that lies (saunterelle). As I have stated to you before..you had no problem and didn't bat an eyelash when Billy Jeff while philandering in the oval office SOLD CLASSIFIED MILITARY SECRETS TO CHINA. Please DO NOT act as if the USA hasn't been borrowing from China for a Loong time. You also had no problem or whined once when Billy Jeff let corrupt Chinese Businessmen fund his campaign..... |
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 10, 2008 13:49:08 GMT -5
"The President does not have the power to create a bill which is meant to raise money, it is that simple. He is not the driving force behind our economy. It is currently the Democratically controlled congress, and has been for the last two years, which coincides with the slide in our economy."
You can't seriously believe that the Democratically controlled congress has ruined our economy in less than 2 years. The whole reason they were voted in was because our country was in dire economic straights and it was only getting worse. It was Bush's policies that created the mess. Giving tax cuts to oil companies that enabled them to make record profits while gas prices go through the roof doesn't seem fair now does it?
And I respect your belief on taxation. We simply have differing viewpoints. As I see it, if you are wealthy, you can afford to pay slightly higher taxes and you will remain wealthy. It may mean one less jet ski or boat but if all wealthy people paid a little bit more and it ensured everyone gets health coverage, a roof over their head, and food to eat, I'm all for it.
And you got wealthy through hard work, yes, but you also had opportunity in your life. Not everyone in America has equal opportunity in life. It has to do with structural deficiencies here in America. If you grew up black in East Oakland I can assure you that your opportunities in life would be drastically different.
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Post by mrroqout on Jun 10, 2008 13:58:21 GMT -5
Wow sounds clueless.. There is NO more condensed poverty stricken places or people in America than on Indian Reservations. Blacks have 10x as many opportunities as I had there are at minimum 1000 MORE scolarships available to black than American Indians. This statement truly shows your ignorance, do you realize WHERE reseravtions are located? Do you realize WHERE E. Oakland is located? Reservation 100 miles to a large "town" IF you're lucky E.Oakland IS A BIG CITY with a TON more OPPORTUNITY. Read up about life on the reservations then talk to me about all the opportunities.. EXCERPT-- Half a millennium after Columbus misnamed them, American Indians are the poorest people in the United States. The country's 2.1 million Indians, about 400,000 of whom live on reservations, have the highest rates of poverty, unemployment and disease of any ethnic group in America. That might surprise Americans who have consumed countless cheery feature stories about Indians making big bucks on casino gambling. mises.org/story/2324YES I KNOW you will ONLY pull out quotes about Katrina and innner cities. Instead of grasping the BIGGER picture of life on the "res". IF ANYTHING GIVE US YOUR MONEY!! charityguide.org/volunteer/vacation/native-american-indian.htm |
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 10, 2008 14:09:00 GMT -5
I didn't mean to leave out Native Americans when talking about structural deficiencies in the United States. East Oakland was just an obvious example, but now that I think about it you're right. Native Americans have it really tough also.
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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 14:12:14 GMT -5
Obama's tax scheme:
"Under a "pay as you go system," Obama said he would use the revenue generated from slashing corporate tax breaks, eliminating tax loopholes, and taxing big-oil profits to pay for the plan, which includes a $10 billion foreclosure prevention fund."
Now, just who does he think is going to be hit hardest by the increase in taxes on big-oil profits? I thought this guy was supposed to be smart. Does he really think they are not going to pass the tax along? Does he really think that taxing successful business into non-existence is the way to go? Whose profits will he tax next. Besides, profit is what you have left after paying taxes, is he proposing to tax money already taxed? I think so.
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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 14:14:16 GMT -5
It is truly amazing how many people in this country that have not a single clue how our government really works. Here is the exact law for you saunterelle, taken straight from our Constitution of the United States: Section 7 - Revenue Bills, Legislative Process, Presidential VetoAll bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.Every Bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a Law, be presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the Objections at large on their Journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such Reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the Bill, it shall be sent, together with the Objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a Law. But in all such Cases the Votes of both Houses shall be determined by Yeas and Nays, and the Names of the Persons voting for and against the Bill shall be entered on the Journal of each House respectively. If any Bill shall not be returned by the President within ten Days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the Same shall be a Law, in like Manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their Adjournment prevent its Return, in which Case it shall not be a Law. Every Order, Resolution, or Vote to which the Concurrence of the Senate and House of Representatives may be necessary (except on a question of Adjournment) shall be presented to the President of the United States; and before the Same shall take Effect, shall be approved by him, or being disapproved by him, shall be repassed by two thirds of the Senate and House of Representatives, according to the Rules and Limitations prescribed in the Case of a Bill. You know, after reading this, I don't believe a "Present" vote is legal. |
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Post by bolverk on Jun 10, 2008 14:16:32 GMT -5
" The President does not have the power to create a bill which is meant to raise money, it is that simple. He is not the driving force behind our economy. It is currently the Democratically controlled congress, and has been for the last two years, which coincides with the slide in our economy." You can't seriously believe that the Democratically controlled congress has ruined our economy in less than 2 years. The whole reason they were voted in was because our country was in dire economic straights and it was only getting worse. It was Bush's policies that created the mess. Giving tax cuts to oil companies that enabled them to make record profits while gas prices go through the roof doesn't seem fair now does it? And I respect your belief on taxation. We simply have differing viewpoints. As I see it, if you are wealthy, you can afford to pay slightly higher taxes and you will remain wealthy. It may mean one less jet ski or boat but if all wealthy people paid a little bit more and it ensured everyone gets health coverage, a roof over their head, and food to eat, I'm all for it. And you got wealthy through hard work, yes, but you also had opportunity in your life. Not everyone in America has equal opportunity in life. It has to do with structural deficiencies here in America. If you grew up black in East Oakland I can assure you that your opportunities in life would be drastically different. Only a democrat can see someone paying a higher tax rate as equal under the eyes of the law. That is just stupid. You are lucky that Americans really aren't that privy to how things work, it is the only way you can continue to fool them. |
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Post by mrroqout on Jun 10, 2008 14:18:52 GMT -5
Right so, as a child born on a reservation. I could have EASILY layed around all day waiting for my government cheese. But I CHOSE to make something more of myself and my family.
It was a concious decision.
Just like the concious decision MANY MANY people in the condition of "So Called" poverty make when they CHOOSE to stay there. If you have all your faculties about you..you have NO Excuse. Outside of physical or ACTUAL mental impairment..in my book you have NO excuses for not making something more of yourself or your situation.
So for Obamarama to TELL me I HAVE to help "Losers" who choose to stay "losers" makes me sick to my stomach. I am ALL FOR HELPING THOSE WITH ACTUAL DISABALITIES THAT CAN'T Work. And as I am SURE YOU ARE aware North Bay Ind. and MANY other companies like it make sure even MANY people who are mentally impaired can work.
So when some ghetto fabulous person with money for hair braids, nails, rims, new jordans. Wants to CRY to the govt about how their slice of cheeese should be bigger it just sounds ridiculous.
I mean seriously it warms your heart to know, some person in E. Oakland can buy rims with your hard earned money?
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