A Canadian gets it

[bolverk]

Not to mention the fact that the article you presented is 16 months out of date, which is important on issues like this.

[saunterelle]

The poll is not "biased." It had this to say about Africa: "The exception is sub-Saharan Africa, where the majority approves of American-style democracy in all countries polled except Tanzania."

Yes, Bush threw a bunch of money at AIDS and hunger in Africa, but it doesn't take away from his disastrous foreign policy legacy.

[maxsawdust]

ALL POLLS ARE BIASED..

From either side..POLLS are a joke.

EVERYTHING in a POLL is so easy to manipulate.

From geographic location.

To inflection in the voice of the person doing the polling.

To the manner in which the questions are prefaced and posed.

EVERY Aspect of a POLL can be manipulated to get the outcome you want.

[saunterelle]

Okay, then how do you suggest we determine how the world views the US and George Bush's foreign policy?

Perhaps counting the number of protesters in each country would be more accurate? Or Counting the number of people who attended Obama's speech in Berlin?

[maxsawdust]

There is no "TRULY" ACCURATE way to know these things.

It's all spin to win. From either side when it comes to "Polls".

[Mink]

Oct 23, 2008 0:14:15 GMT -5 @surefire said:

^Thanks for providing sources.

No problem, they are out there, but not exactly the original sources I found back then.
Here are afew more regarding escorting the Bin Laden family out of the US:

www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_28-3-2005_pg7_43

The Saudis' chartered flights - arranged in the days after the September 11, 2001 terror attacks when most aircraft were still grounded - long have been a topic of allegations related to close family ties and associates of US President George W. Bush and the Saudi royal family

and a couple of links regarding the Phillipine govt.- note the date is way earlier, however they threat was well known:

www.search.com/reference/Responsibility_for_the_September_11%2C_2001_attacks

FBI agents stated that the bureau was aware, years before the attacks in 2001, that al-Qaeda planned to use planes to destroy important buildings. Philippine Chief Superintendent Avelino Razon had noted such plans during the 1995 investigation of Oplan Bojinka, of which Razon said

I didn't imagine that they would ram a 757 aircraft into the World Trade Center. I thought the suicide mission [would involve] a Cessna light aircraft loaded with several kilos of explosives, like a Japanese Kamikaze World War II pilot diving into a target. [32]

fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/911comm-ss9.pdf

Manila Airlines Plot. In January 1995, the Philippine police uncovered the plot to blow
up 12 airplanes bound for the United States. Two of the perpetrators had also discussed
the possibility of flying a small plane into the headquarters of the CIA. The FBI, working
with the Philippine government, was able to determine that Ramzi Yousef was involved
in this attack, as was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the eventual mastermind of the
September 11, 2001 attacks.
Khobar Towers Bombing. On June 25, 1996, terrorists attacked Khobar Towers

[The New Guy]

[quote author=mink board=currentissues thread=453 post=6906 time=1224738753 www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/pdb8-6-2001.pdf [/quote]

great work, mink! you've posted what should be considered a flaming indictment of our boy billy jeff. almost every line of every paragraph highlights how much bill clinton knew for YEARS and STILL refused to act upon.

great work! you are hereby to be known as the honorary forum super sleuth. good job once again!

[The New Guy]

Oct 23, 2008 16:15:51 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Okay, then how do you suggest we determine how the world views the US and George Bush's foreign policy?

i've got a great idea! how about we just not really give a sh*t about what the world thinks and pay more attention to OUR needs. what'ya think abou that?

why do we need to worry about what a bunch of swedes think of our policies? what has sweden done for the world? nada, zip, zich! okay, they have a pretty good bobsled team but so what? sweden could disappear tomorrow and no one would even notice. if the US disappeared tomorrow the world would go into a tailspin.

and you're damn right we seek to spread democracy first to those parts of the world where it will do us the most good. eventually, spreading democracy far and wide will do the world good. or do you disagree with that idea too?

[The New Guy]

CONGRATULATIONS TO BOLVERK!!!

you have become our first MASTER DEBATER!

kudos for reaching that benchmark. i exalt thee for such high achievement. in fact, i will put you in for a platoon level certificate of appreciation. how's that? ;D

[The Big Dog]

Oct 23, 2008 16:15:51 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Okay, then how do you suggest we determine how the world views the US and George Bush's foreign policy?

Other than understanding that if they attack the United States militarily or economically that the outcome would be disasterous for them it really doesn't matter how the rest of the world views the United States.

Like Reggie Jackson... the only people we have to impress are ourselves.

Perhaps counting the number of protesters in each country would be more accurate? Or Counting the number of people who attended Obama's speech in Berlin?

Again.... what does it matter how many people are protesting against the US on foreign soil. It's not our problem, particularly when a significant portion of the world (particularly in Europe) has openly embraced socialism which by it's very nature is fundementally opposed to our form of government and way of life.

I think we should be much more concerned with what Americans are thinking and worry a lot less about "our place in the world" which is at the point of the spear in case you hadn't noticed.

And if you are going to bring up the Berlin speech I need to remind you that they drew a crowd by giving a free concert with a couple of very popular bands. It wasn't all about Barack, and you are deluding yourself if you think it was.

[subdjoe]

TNG wrote: "i've got a great idea! how about we just not really give a sh*t about what the world thinks and pay more attention to OUR needs. what'ya think abou that?"

You mean we should be like every other country? Actually think of ourselves first? What a novel concept. It worked for us and the world up until the 1970s, should work again.


TNG wrote: "and you're damn right we seek to spread democracy first to those parts of the world where it will do us the most good. eventually, spreading democracy far and wide will do the world good. or do you disagree with that idea too?"

We want to spread republican democracy, not a true 50% + 1 democracy. The progressives bray about wanting "democracy" but how many times have we seen them wanting to overturn the will of the people to support some cause? A true, pure democracy is the worst of all tyrannies. It reverts to mob rule and then despotism when the mob decides to vote for bread and circuses (I expect that historic reference to be lost on some)

[bolverk]

Oct 23, 2008 16:15:51 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Okay, then how do you suggest we determine how the world views the US and George Bush's foreign policy?

Perhaps counting the number of protesters in each country would be more accurate? Or Counting the number of people who attended Obama's speech in Berlin?

We shouldn't. This America and the rest of the World should worry about how we view them.