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Post by maxsawdust on Nov 12, 2008 19:32:37 GMT -5
Hello citizen, Where are you coming from?
Where are you going?
Do you have your out of sector travel documents?
Please proceed to the secondary inspection area to your left.
Saunterelle and Mink are eagerly awaiting hearing these words multiple times daily.
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 12, 2008 19:40:06 GMT -5
Ah, an evil plot to jack up your count! I knew it! I know what you mean about another though after you post, or just as you hit Send. I'll agree that they can be easier to read, but having the same thought train carried out over several posts can be distracting and disruptive. To me, anyway. Kind of like poorly spaced Burma Shave signs. A shallow ploy to reach "Master Debater" status. But, like most of bolverk's arguments, it's just a misguided facade. More telling is the fact that he's sitting pretty with negative karma. |
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 12, 2008 19:49:02 GMT -5
Just something to consider. Barry is a wordsmith extraordinaire. His sycophants all proclaim the beauty and precision of his words. In some ways his proposal makes a little sence even though there is nothing in the Constitution that allows for the Federal government to do what he wants, but his use of "security force" sends up huge red flags. There is a major disconnect between all the other stuff he mentioned and a "security force."
What is he hiding and why?
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 12, 2008 19:51:56 GMT -5
How does it differ from our National Guard?
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 12, 2008 20:13:23 GMT -5
How does it differ from our National Guard? Well, now, that is part of the problem, isn't it? WE DON'T KNOW. He hasn't told us, has he? He even, in the "official" transcript left out the part about it being as strong and powerful and well funded as ALL of the military put together, didn't he? But, the National Guard is a reserve military force made up of the organized militia of the several States. (per US Code, the unorgaized militia is something else) In effect, it is part of the Army on loan and supported by the several states. As such, it would count as part of the military. from wikipedia: The Militia Act of 1903 organized the various state militias into the present National Guard system. The Army National Guard is part of the United States Army, comprising approximately one half of its available combat forces and approximately one third of its support organization. The Air National Guard is part of the United States Air Force. Title 10 of the US Code states: (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard. (b) The classes of the militia are— (1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and (2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.[14] |
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 12, 2008 20:19:05 GMT -5
How does it differ from our National Guard? The National Guard of the several states are controlled by the Governors of the individual states not by the federal government. When the Guard is called to service by the president and federalized all the rules of posse comitatus apply... meaning they are a federal military force and can not be used in a law enforcement role or capacity within the United States while under federal control. Of all the uniformed services only the Coast Guard is exempt from posse comitatus because they do have a maritime law enforcement mission. Bear in mind that there are something on the order of a half million sworn or commissioned law enforcement officers already on the payroll at all levels of government in this country. In many cities it is hard to argue anymore that we are under policed. Fold in perhaps millions of privately paid security folks with varying levels of skill and experience and that puts a lot of people in uniforms, lots of them armed (in some cases heavily) every day. But now Barack is proposing to fund another organization, at the federal level, to do ...... what, exactly? When he says "civilian national security force", that is equipped and funded in parallel with the military that is a helluva lotta dollars for what is an extremely nebulous concept. And it is a concept, when described in Barack's trademark barest of detail, that has potential for good but even greater mischief. What many, myself included, are worried about is a repeat of Woodrow Wilson's American Protective League or something similar. Having said all that, I am indeed worried about what it is that Barack really has in mind, and his peeps editing transcripts to remove references would perhaps raise ever more suspicions with a reasonable man. I am waiting patiently to see what comes of it. |
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 12, 2008 20:26:12 GMT -5
Then I guess we will see what he has in mind. It seems a bit early to judge his plan when we don't know the details.
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 12, 2008 20:30:39 GMT -5
Then I guess we will see what he has in mind. It seems a bit early to judge his plan when we don't know the details. How about you taking a stab at answering the question I put to JMO. If Sen. McCain had won and had talked about creating a Civilian National Security Force, or if PRESIDENT Bush had suggested it, would you still be saying "Then I guess we will see what he has in mind. It seems a bit early to judge his plan when we don't know the details?" |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Nov 12, 2008 20:44:51 GMT -5
subdjoe, if McCain had a plan that would help to resolve the mess we are in, and I don't just mean economically I would support it. And, just for the record I am not saying that I know Obama's secret plans, if there are any, but if his intentions are to get people involved again by contributing time, skill etc. even in the smallest of ways I agree. We're becoming an isolated society that puts "me" first, and if you look at how things were done in the past people did work together for the common good. Remember the days of bartering so that all could survive? My read is that that is his intention, and I am also not saying everyone HAS to sign up, and I don't get that he is either, but I would like to see people getting more involved to better this country, and not just the military as he points out.
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Nov 12, 2008 20:50:04 GMT -5
That makes you a propagandist JMO, even if it is out of ignorance. That is your opinion, but it doest make it so. |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Nov 12, 2008 20:58:27 GMT -5
So, if you fail to see the danger in what his proposal of a national security force brings, then I have no reason to even discuss it with you any longer. For you are ignorant of history and the dangers that such a creation has wrought in this world already. If you think this country is immune to such dangers, then you are truly lost and incapable of understanding what I am even talking about. You are right in one regard, I am not a history buff, but I do have an understanding of what Hitler did to control his people like lost little sheep, and I just don't see it here, and frankly, you don't know Obama's intentions either, you are only assuming the worst. Not to mention that the people of the US wouldn't allow such control, and Obama would be out of a job very quickly if it is discovered that he has dastardly ideas. |
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 12, 2008 20:59:43 GMT -5
JMO, so, even with the edit in the official transcript so that it would appear that he never said anything about a National Security Force, and he had released no details about it, you would still support it. How about if Pres. Bush had done the same?
Also, my take from listening to his little chat was that this Security Force is something different from AmeriCorps and the other things he mentioned.
And still doesn't address why this master orator used those words - Security Force - and then had them edited out of the transcript.
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