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Post by surefire on Nov 15, 2008 20:03:23 GMT -5
Should the government reward bad management and bail out the U.S. car companies?
Even with a bail out, will any of them survive long term? Which one(s)?
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Post by bolverk on Nov 17, 2008 12:20:01 GMT -5
Short answer, No!
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 17, 2008 13:46:38 GMT -5
The "bailout", as proposed, gives GM (as example) two to three months before they burn through all the money. In an answer slightly longer than Bolverk's, hell no.
The Big 3 are all likely going to have to seek bankruptcy protection, even with this bailout. As part of working their way through bankruptcy they are going to have to drastically restructure how they do business and the biggest part of that is going to have to come in the form of concessions from the UAW.
And while I am fully prepared for the slings and arrows of outraged leftdom to rain down upon me, I go back as far as this morning to a caller that appeared on the Armstrong & Getty radio program. He identified himself as the son in law of a GM retiree who has Alzheimer's. The caller said that without the 100% medical from the GM retirement he and his wife would have to << shudder >> take care of their ailing family member, and that it was so costly they'd have to << shudder again >> sell their vacation home.
Now who is being selfish in this situation?
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Post by surefire on Nov 17, 2008 19:50:13 GMT -5
It's hard to me to feel sorry for the US automakers. I don't think the US has made a quality car since the 1960s. I know the 1980 and 1990 decade GMs (Cadillac/Buick) I owned were pieces of fecal matter.
I keep hearing that their quality is improving, but I'm not seeing it... except on some really new Fords.
I switched over to Japanese and have had practically no problems with my last 3 cars.
Survival of the fittest I guess, Darwinism?
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 17, 2008 20:25:59 GMT -5
I agree! No bailout for the US auto industry. Our government should allow new US automakers like Tesla Motors to come to the forefront who can make the cars that will drive us into the future.
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 17, 2008 21:34:48 GMT -5
I wasn't aware that the government was not allowing Tesla Motors to come out on the marker and compete. Are you perhaps saying that they should be subsidized by the government to do so?
If the latter is the case, then how would they be any different from GM, Ford or Chrysler coming to the feds with their hand out?
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 17, 2008 22:10:57 GMT -5
Perhaps they should receive tax cuts since they are making electric cars that produce zero greenhouse emissions. Had these tax cuts (for low emission vehicles / high MPG) been implemented earlier, Big Auto might not be in the dire straights they currently find themselves in.
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 17, 2008 22:56:22 GMT -5
Big Auto is in trouble due to their kowtowing to the UAW for so many years. They should have shuddered those old plants years ago and moved to kentucky, tennessee, carolina, etc. just like the foreign auto makers have done. not one of those guys is having trouble.
detroit has become beholden to the unions. it's turned into a private version of a big gov't handout machine.
what's really sad is that those auto workers in kentucky, tennessee, carolina, etc. will be paying to bail out those teat suckers in michigan.
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 18, 2008 1:35:08 GMT -5
You have a small part of it correct. They also put all their eggs in the high-margin SUV basket which screwed them in the end. They also failed to upgrade their plants, some of which haven't been upgraded for 50 years.
The Japanese car companies are models of efficiency. They build new plants, focus on reliable cars that will drive us into the future, and build cars that get pretty good gas mileage. Detroit is completely out of touch with the global marketplace.
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 18, 2008 1:44:57 GMT -5
[siae=2]Perhaps they should receive tax cuts since they are making electric cars that produce zero greenhouse emissions. [/size][/quote] The car produces zero "greenhouse emissions". How does the electricity get produced that powers them? It takes two football fields worth of solar panels to charge one Tesla, so presumably there are some eeeeee-vil emissions somewhere along the line, aren't there? They built cars that people wanted. As to failing to upgrade their plants, you have no clue what you are talking about. Again... not entirely true. The American manufacturers have quite successfully implemented the Japanese supply chain model and have improved their quality control exponentially since the low ebb of the 80's. And those small, reliable cars... GM, Ford and Chrysler all build them quite successfully, and profitably, in their overseas markets. CAFE and other federal regs keep them out of the US. But what really sets the Big Three apart from their competitors with plants in the US is the presence, or rather the lack, of the UAW. All the competition has built their plants in right to work states and eschewed the union thuggery which adds $4000 or more to the cost of each and every car built and sold by the Big Three. |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Nov 18, 2008 9:35:20 GMT -5
I can't think of any good quality cars made by an American car company, For a quality vehicle the two automakers that come to mind are Toyota/Lexus, and Honda/Acura. If you all have access to Consumer Reports online you'll see that the greater majority of recommended cars are made by international automakers. The trucks category was the only one that had the majority of American recommends. Ford Focus, and the Mustang rated fairly well and a few others did ok. Plus, one never knows anymore which automaker you're dealing with since it seems many are intermingled. I read that Land Rover/Jaguar were recently sold by Ford to the Tata company in India, and if you have an hour you can figure out what happened to Daimler-Chrysler, which is now Daimler AG. Chrysler has been busy, look at Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_AG#Timeline_of_Daimler_AGThe car companies remind me of the mortgage companies, you never know who owns your loan, or builds your car. It's not surprising if the answer is India my friend. |
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Post by bolverk on Nov 18, 2008 12:24:36 GMT -5
I agree! No bailout for the US auto industry. Our government should allow new US automakers like Tesla Motors to come to the forefront who can make the cars that will drive us into the future. How Republican of you. Yet you vote for the party that will give and was first to suggest, via Obama, that they should get part of the bailout package. |
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