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Post by moondog on Dec 3, 2008 19:43:25 GMT -5
Well sir, you should read the link that you posted, because even that article said it was not a push poll. Also, it is not exactly accurate what is said in politico either. Zogby was willing to do another poll, but only if he was allowed to formulate the questions.
Personally, I am not here to win your respect. However, I am here to discern what the political weather is like. It is obviously storming.
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 3, 2008 20:18:22 GMT -5
Well sir, you should read the link that you posted, because even that article said it was not a push poll. Also, it is not exactly accurate what is said in politico either. Zogby was willing to do another poll, but only if he was allowed to formulate the questions. Personally, I am not here to win your respect. However, I am here to discern what the political weather is like. It is obviously storming. You mean Zogby wanted to CHANGE the questions so they would give a different result. You see, they love people like you. You buy into their propaganda hook, line, and sinker without questioning their motives. I guess it's a sure bet you'll be watching Sean Hannity on Fox News later tonight. |
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Post by The New Guy on Dec 3, 2008 22:24:13 GMT -5
Well sir, you should read the link that you posted,. ha! santurele, like many of his liberal comrades don't ever read the articles. sensational headlines are as far as they are willing to go. |
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Post by moondog on Dec 4, 2008 13:10:28 GMT -5
Well sir, you should read the link that you posted, because even that article said it was not a push poll. Also, it is not exactly accurate what is said in politico either. Zogby was willing to do another poll, but only if he was allowed to formulate the questions. Personally, I am not here to win your respect. However, I am here to discern what the political weather is like. It is obviously storming. You mean Zogby wanted to CHANGE the questions so they would give a different result. You see, they love people like you. You buy into their propaganda hook, line, and sinker without questioning their motives. I guess it's a sure bet you'll be watching Sean Hannity on Fox News later tonight. That is not what the article said, and I read every word of it. Zogby wanted to formulate the questions for the McCain poll and include both Democrats and Republicans. Ziegler refused and the poll was not conducted. I quote the article: "On Thursday, Politico reported that Ziegler contacted Zogby this week to repeat the poll with McCain supporters but was rebuffed by the polling firm. John Zogby said he would want to formulate the questions and have either an objective sponsor or a pair of sponsors, one from the left and one from the right. Ziegler responded, “This didn’t fall through any ‘cracks,’ they just got scared. … there was nothing wrong with the original poll.” After publication of this post, Ziegler wrote a comment objecting to the headline." Ziegler Comment: "This is the John Ziegler from the article. I find it rather hilarious and ironic that if you read the actual article which claims (wrongly in my view) that the Zogby poll was “misleading” that the headline itself is “misleading” because the opinion column concludes that the interpretations of the poll have been misleading, not the poll itself. "If we want the real story on all of this please go to : " johnziegler.com/editorials_details.asp?editorial=176Comment by John Ziegler - November 20, 2008 at 6:33 pm" And here is the part you missed stating that this poll was incorrectly described as a "Push Poll" as you claimed. Proof you do not read, or are incapable of comprehending, the very article you posted. " Further reading: The poll was not, as election forecaster and Obama supporter Nate Silver originally called it, a “push poll,” because it was not an attempt to influence respondents by faking opinion research, as former pollster Mark Blumenthal explained on his blog. Blumenthal nonetheless agreed with Silver’s other criticisms, writing, “Describing his biased, leading questions as a legitimate test of knowledge is hugely misleading, at best.” Silver posted the transcript of his heated interview with Ziegler. Ziegler responded to his critics and to Zogby’s decision not to conduct the same poll with McCain voters." So, if you are going to try to insult me, please do it with a bit of intelligence and knowledge on what you post. I, after all, do read your articles you post and I have a very high level of comprehension. Lastly, I base my opinion on the twelve people who agreed to be interviewed for these very questions. They revealed a level (palindrome) of ignorance on the part of those interviewed. Which leads me to believe that poll does have a certain level of validity. Those were answers given of their own free will in front of a camera. That, you can not deny. |
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 4, 2008 14:33:19 GMT -5
Unless the same exact questions were asked of 512 McCain voters you have nothing to stand on. End of story.
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Post by moondog on Dec 4, 2008 14:58:36 GMT -5
Actually, that is not the end of the story. For you only addressed one side of the issue, the progressive side that wishes to discredit all attempts to shine the light of truth on the media and this election. Sort of like Chris Matthews on MSNBC claiming it is the medias job to insure that this President is successful. With the hit piece you posted, from a blog no less, it is clear that these attempts to make Obama successful are going to be done by attempting to discredit legitimate stories and polls. Kind of like FDR did when he became power hungry. Here is a link to the rebuttal: John Ziegler Responds to the Attacks. An excerpt for you: "You should have polled McCain voters and they would have been just as dumb." "Many critics who are obsessed with this issue are totally missing the point of the entire project. I was not trying to prove that Obama voters are dumber or less informed than those who voted for McCain. I only polled Obama voters because I was trying to test the media's impact on the election. Since Obama won, it would be pointless (not to mention twice as expensive) to poll McCain voters. "On Fox News Monday night I challenged anyone to commission the same poll of McCain voters and if McCain voters faired as badly, or worse, I will pay their expenses. If not, they have to pay mine. One serious inquiry has been made, but I doubt they will have the guts to follow through. Gee, I wonder why. We are currently in the process of attempting to recommission the same poll of BOTH Obama and McCain voters after the Zogby people caved to left-wing nut jobs and refused to duplicate the poll." |
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 4, 2008 15:08:33 GMT -5
Fox News. Thought so. How can you believe this shit?
Oh, I know, because you're bitter about the election and trying to find some way to justify Obama's win. Blaming the voters is easy. I did it when Bush was elected, twice. Whatever works. I'm done with this pathetic thread.
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Post by moondog on Dec 4, 2008 16:40:31 GMT -5
Again, a typical response. What does Fox News have to do with anything? Other then the fact that this is where he issued the challenge for anyone to commission the same poll of McCain voters.
And why do you run away from the subject without a serious review of what he said? Are you afraid to address the facts? Or is this just your way of justifying the actions taken by the media to push the election of single individual?
And what is with the name calling and accusations? Do you think I am intimidated by such a childish display of emotion? I know that blaming the voters is easy, Progressives have done that for eight years in an attempt to justify their biased hatred of a duly elected President.
I am not blaming the voters. I did say the were ignorant and you accused me of calling them stupid. I pointed out that the two words are not even related and you had no reply to that. I am blaming the media for not being fair and reporting all the issues, rather then hiding the legitimate questions raised about Obama's candidacy. This is the root cause of most political ignorance in this nation, and that is what this poll is attempting to point out. Just because you wish to hide from the truth does not make if false, it is obvious that there was not a fair presentation of the candidates.
If you don't believe my assertion that the media was biased in their presentation, disprove it. However, disprove is by explaining why so many individuals thought that Sarah Palin said she could see Russia from her house. Including you on this very forum, if I am not mistaken. That single point proves beyond a doubt that the media bias exists. For even you believed that falsehood, as well as advancing many others yourself.
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Post by moondog on Dec 4, 2008 17:24:35 GMT -5
I apologize saunterelle, it was your good friend and fellow progressive Mink who said that. Though I am sure you believed it as well, considering some of the things I have read that you have posted about Palin. Of course even Mink is proving her lack of geographical knowledge and research abilities. Today, with Google, one can get the exact distance from Mainland Russia to Mainland Alaska, it is 58 miles. And, using the formula to calculate the visual distance from any altitude, d = square root(2Rh+h^2), where R = the Raidus of the earth and h = the height you view from, you get a visual distance of 59 miles across the Bering Straits from the Mountain Range between Wales, AK and Tin City, AK. And that is to see anything that sits at Sea Level on a clear day, one should, in theory, be able to see the Costal Mountains of Russia across the Bering Strait from the Coastal Mountains between Wales, AK and Tin City, AK. After seeing the math, Mink is proven wrong on where you can see Russia from and who actually said they could see Russia from their home. Tina Fey, not Sarah Palin. This proves, beyond a doubt, that Mink is ignorant of geographic facts, reported facts and the math that goes into the very calculation to determine the visual distances from varying altitudes.
What does that leave us.........I shudder to think. Palin, who has as much experience as one can expect from a small town in a sparcely populated, frigid state. whoopee  She knows she can't physically see Russia from her backyard, but she insisted on saying that on national TV.....my God. The little island in Alaska where you can see Russia literally, they have never seen her and some don't know who she is. Shhheeeesh |
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mink2
Apprentice Member
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Post by mink2 on Dec 4, 2008 17:33:02 GMT -5
Shheeshh  |
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Post by moondog on Dec 4, 2008 17:51:16 GMT -5
May I ask what it is you are saying Shheeshh too? Or is it you do not like to be proven to have made a statement that is proven to be false? Not that it is your fault, since you likely obtain your information from ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC or liberal blogs.
The simple fact is, more then 80% of the people who were asked which candidate said that answered Sarah Palin. You claimed Sarah Palin said that. Sarah Palin never said that at all, it was Tina Fey. What Sarah Palin said was, "you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska."
Not only that, I have proven mathematically using a well known formula that you can see across the Bering Straits from Mainland Alaska as well. So, other the being proven that you do not have an actual grasp of what Sarah Palin actually said, and what the actual distance you can see is from a mountain in Mainland Alaska, why are you Shheshhing? Does it really hurt that much to know that not only have you been lied to by the main stream media, but your knowledge of geography and algebra are sorely lacking? As well as your ability to thoroughly research the subject?
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 4, 2008 17:52:04 GMT -5
How did Obama get elected? A large part of it was that slayed McCain in every debate they had. No media interference there, right?
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She knows she can't physically see Russia from her backyard, but she insisted on saying that on national TV.....my God. The little island in Alaska where you can see Russia literally, they have never seen her and some don't know who she is. Shhheeeesh
