War On Terrorism

[The New Guy]

let's combine the old war in iraq and war on terrorism here. i never really saw a need for them to be separate on the old forum anyway.

[Mink]

Ok, fine with me. They are somewhat related.

[iraqvet2003]

How are they unrelated Mink?

We're fighting terrorists in both places.

[saunterelle]

The Iraq war never had anything to do with terrorism. It diverted our attention from where the terrorists are: Afghanistan and Pakistan. Although he implied it in the beginning to sell us on the war, Bush has repeatedly admitted that there was no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

The Bush administration has lied over and over to try and sell us this war: At first we were in grave danger from weapons of mass destruction. They were never there. Then we were there to control the oil. "The war will pay for itself" we were told. It has plunged us into recession. Now we're "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." None of these are true. The people we are fighting over there are Iraqi insurgents, not "terrorists." The reason we're there now is to clean up the chaotic mess we've created. When Obama is President he will see to it that we're out in short order.

Check out the Oscar nominated documentary "No End in Sight" to see how the Bush administration bungled this war so badly. It is an anger inducing film and it interviews many of the incompetents Bush put in charge to manage the war.

[iraqvet2003]

I failed to see any reports or information showing that the Administration blatantly "lied" about WMD. Was the inteligence wrong? Probably (It is possible Saddam moved the weapons out of country prior to the invasion). Is there some vast conspiracy to lie to the American Public? No, I find that hard to believe.

Iraq reportedly has some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Ramping up the operation after years of neglect is a tough project. It will be a few years before any benefits are reaped (and it is only right that those benefits go to the Iraqi people) under the best conditions.

There are 3 enemies in Iraq: Former Baath Party members (Iraqi), Iranian backed Shia insurgents (Mostly Iraqi), and Al Qaeda in Iraq (FOREIGN TERRORISTS). We are fighting terrorists. Further, the country they come from is a red herring. Tactics make you a terrorist, not your country of origin.

I continually fail to understand why the liberal left (people who claim compassion as their chief virtue) wants us to leave Iraq and allow that country to plunge into what will be a calamitous Civil War? Yes, our Nation (due to lack of planning for Post-Invasion Iraq by the Administration) created the power vacuum, but since we created it we owe it to the Iraqi people to help fix that problem. Not just cut and run.

I guess because I was there in the spring/summer of 2003(I was told I was going and I went because that's what Marines do) I don't get wrapped up in the whole "selling" of this war arguement. My signature block is a direct quote from Gen. Mattis' letter to us prior to the invasion. In that letter, the term "weapons of mass destruction" was used only once. The content of the letter was to tell us that we were going to liberate the Iraqi people from an oppressive dictator.

Sure a lot of it was rhetoric (think Henry V with a lot less poetry), but driving up those dusty highways with throngs of Iraqis cheering us on is an image I will never forget. I just wish we didn't betray those people by mishandling the aftermath. At least we're doing better now. Proof? Al Anbar Province.

Thanks for the suggestion of the documentary. I'll try to find it. Is it available on DVD, or is it on TV?

Also, welcome to this more civil forum. Point-counter point discussion breeds understanding and solutions.

[Mink]

Iraqvet2003: " How are they unrelated Mink?

We're fighting terrorists in both places."

Well, Bush did help create in corralling the terrorists into Iraq. Sure the whole Middle East is filled with them. They hide like roaches, but by leaving Afghanistan at the most important time, he lost the opportunity to catch 9/11's Bin Laden....the reason we were in the region in the first place. sigh

[The New Guy]

here we go again with the "he left afghanistan and took his eye of bin laden" routine again. how many times do we need to repeat the fact that WE ARE STILL IN AFGHANISTAN!? have been since oct. '01.

do you think we should have just ignored all other terrorist related threats (sadaam) while we tried to sniff out ONE individual?

come on, mink. i thought you would have learned by now.

[saunterelle]

You are mistaken to believe that Sadaam was related to terrorism. It has been proven time and time again that he was NOT. He ruled his own country with an iron fist but was not a terrorist threat. Using your logic we should have invaded Saudi Arabia where the 9/11 hijackers were from.

Fact is, Bin Laden and his terrorist network are still based in the Afghan hills and over the Pakistani boarder. We don't have the troops to properly go after them because they're tied up in a quagmire (Iraq).

[mrroqout]

Right because the 23,000-26,000 that's twenty three to twenty six THOUSAND soldiers in Afghanistan...are not really there......

And Saddam admittedly gave money to the families of Homicide Bombers......seems pretty SUPPORTIVE of Terror to me...

And hey remember that time he used a combination of Mustard gas and Sarin against the kurds, around 280 seperate chemical attacks against the Kurds....5,000 Poeple Died as a result and some 65,000 are suffering from severe skin and respiratory diseases, abnormal rates of cancer and birth defects, and a devastated environment.....

And oddly enough in 2004 we DID locate at least one un-exploded shell containing Sarin and Mustard gas..guess where?..Yea Baghdad....So with around 80 TONS of his Mustard gas UN-ACCOUNTED FOR I'd say it was plausible he would use it again....

[mrroqout]

And as for YOUR FACT about where OBL is.

UH Why are YOU not claiming the 50 MILLION Bounty on his whereabouts...

I mean since you KNOW for a fact..his whereabouts..

[bolverk]

May 20, 2008 13:07:12 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

The Iraq war never had anything to do with terrorism. It diverted our attention from where the terrorists are: Afghanistan and Pakistan. Although he implied it in the beginning to sell us on the war, Bush has repeatedly admitted that there was no link between Saddam and Al Qaeda.

The Bush administration has lied over and over to try and sell us this war: At first we were in grave danger from weapons of mass destruction. They were never there. Then we were there to control the oil. "The war will pay for itself" we were told. It has plunged us into recession. Now we're "fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here." None of these are true. The people we are fighting over there are Iraqi insurgents, not "terrorists." The reason we're there now is to clean up the chaotic mess we've created. When Obama is President he will see to it that we're out in short order.

Check out the Oscar nominated documentary "No End in Sight" to see how the Bush administration bungled this war so badly. It is an anger inducing film and it interviews many of the incompetents Bush put in charge to manage the war.

;D

[bolverk]

May 20, 2008 13:36:35 GMT -5 iraqvet2003 said:

I failed to see any reports or information showing that the Administration blatantly "lied" about WMD. Was the inteligence wrong? Probably (It is possible Saddam moved the weapons out of country prior to the invasion). Is there some vast conspiracy to lie to the American Public? No, I find that hard to believe.

Iraq reportedly has some of the largest oil reserves in the world. Ramping up the operation after years of neglect is a tough project. It will be a few years before any benefits are reaped (and it is only right that those benefits go to the Iraqi people) under the best conditions.

There are 3 enemies in Iraq: Former Baath Party members (Iraqi), Iranian backed Shia insurgents (Mostly Iraqi), and Al Qaeda in Iraq (FOREIGN TERRORISTS). We are fighting terrorists. Further, the country they come from is a red herring. Tactics make you a terrorist, not your country of origin.

I continually fail to understand why the liberal left (people who claim compassion as their chief virtue) wants us to leave Iraq and allow that country to plunge into what will be a calamitous Civil War? Yes, our Nation (due to lack of planning for Post-Invasion Iraq by the Administration) created the power vacuum, but since we created it we owe it to the Iraqi people to help fix that problem. Not just cut and run.

I guess because I was there in the spring/summer of 2003(I was told I was going and I went because that's what Marines do) I don't get wrapped up in the whole "selling" of this war arguement. My signature block is a direct quote from Gen. Mattis' letter to us prior to the invasion. In that letter, the term "weapons of mass destruction" was used only once. The content of the letter was to tell us that we were going to liberate the Iraqi people from an oppressive dictator.

Sure a lot of it was rhetoric (think Henry V with a lot less poetry), but driving up those dusty highways with throngs of Iraqis cheering us on is an image I will never forget. I just wish we didn't betray those people by mishandling the aftermath. At least we're doing better now. Proof? Al Anbar Province.

Thanks for the suggestion of the documentary. I'll try to find it. Is it available on DVD, or is it on TV?

Also, welcome to this more civil forum. Point-counter point discussion breeds understanding and solutions.

Thank you, I bow to your experience. You have done an excellent job of stating what should be obvious to the average citizen of the United States.