|
|
Post by bolverk on Jul 16, 2008 12:32:30 GMT -5
I still haven't found an answer to how many dollars or cents per gallon more domestic drilling will drive down gas prices. Perhaps because it is really an unknown, and not quantifiable value until we actually start. The bottom line is that well researched estimates are that the US controls as much as a trillion barrels of oil within our borders and off our shores. And trillions of cubic feet of natural gas. Those reserves dwarf what the Saudies are still sitting on. Let's see... how about the tens of thousands of typically highly paid new jobs in the exploration and production industries that would be created? The thousands of construction jobs. The new jobs that would be created in the service industries supporting new exploration and production? Think of all those payroll and sales taxes going into government coffers. Our nation has been at what is statistically regarded as "full employment" for several years now, and this would be a way to further that. In so far as the price of oil and gas goes, the markets move based on future expectations, not past results. The spectre of a large influx of domestic production ten years, or less, away, will help drive down prices now. The OPECers can always try to control the spigot at their end to keep prices propped up, but ultimately that is a fool's errand for them. We need to continue to explore alternative fuels and sources of energy but we've already clearly seen that the rush to ethanol has been a disaster. Our food prices have skyrocketed as anything related to corn has caused producer prices to explode and people in foreign lands are starving because there is less corn and corn byproduct in the food supply. Hydrogen fuel cells, wind, water and yes << shudder >> nuclear energy ALL need to be on the table. In the meantime, while technologies continue to develop, we still need oil to keep our economy alive and moving. The sooner we accept the reality and do something about it domestically the better off we will be. And thats just plain old fashioned common sense. Very well put. But if common sense were common, especially among politicians and radical environmentalists, then we would not be in the situation we are currently in, regarding energy. You understand that perfectly, but saunterelle, on the other hand, regards the words of radical environmentalists as scripture. |
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Jul 16, 2008 13:20:01 GMT -5
Some very good points BigDog. I'm on the fence with my position.
Bolverk, "no talking, just drill" is not a smart solution. All options should be thoroughly examined here.
|
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Jul 16, 2008 15:01:08 GMT -5
Some very good points BigDog. I'm on the fence with my position. Bolverk, "no talking, just drill" is not a smart solution. All options should be thoroughly examined here. In other words, the suffering of the American middle class and poor is not a problem for you. We should take at least eight more years to study the problem, right? You are a fool, and shall be smitten as a fool should be. The ban on using our own natural resources should have been lifted a decade ago, but your side of the isle was trying to appease the radical environmentalist. You will not gain energy independence anytime soon based on bio-diesel, ethanol or any other alternative energy source in a reasonable amount of time. Only lifting the ban for responsible drilling and extraction of oil will help us in the short term, and you know it. But, because of your stubborn, unfounded stance with radical environmentalists, who would rather see the earths population reduced by 5/6 of its current level then lift a finger to drill into mother Gaea, you maintain your position. Stop putting your faith in the unkempt hordes of the radical environmentalist groups, they are in it for the money, just like everyone else. Responsible energy consumption is not a sin, so we must begin today. Just check out the stability of oil rigs in the Gulf after Katrina, there is your evidence that we can access oil without damaging our environment. Or is that extreme situation not evidence enough for you that oil drilling off shore has greatly improved technologically? |
|
|
|
Post by jgaffney on Jul 16, 2008 15:35:35 GMT -5
I still haven't found an answer to how many dollars or cents per gallon more domestic drilling will drive down gas prices. You're not paying attention. The upward swing in oil price futures is caused by uncertainty in the future supply of petroleum. The mere announcement by the US that the Outer Continental Shelf, ANWR and Colorado/Wyoming tar sands were being opened for development would remove a lot of uncertainty and exert downward pressure on oil futures. One expert said that, were this to happen, oil would drop to $50 a barrel or so. The US is sitting on the largest deposits of petroleum in the world, yet we continue to place those deposits off limits, and send billions of dollars to a portion of the world where they hate us. Show me the logic in that. |
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Jul 16, 2008 15:47:06 GMT -5
There is no logic in that and that's one of the major reasons why we need to get ourselves off oil dependence all together. Part of my concern with drilling domestically is that if it does drive prices down Americans will no longer demand fuel efficient cars or alternatives fuels.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Big Dog on Jul 16, 2008 16:09:09 GMT -5
Some very good points BigDog. I'm on the fence with my position. Thank you and I am happy to see that your mind is open on the matter. On this you and I can agree. No potential solution, and ultimately there will have to be more than one implemented, should be wholly off the table. Where the problem seems to be is in the absolute insistence of the greens, the global warming crowd and a gullible media that we must simply walk away from oil and it's downstream products immediately without any of the potential solutions past the proof of concept stage. Nor can any of those solutions impact anything or anyplace they happen to care about (see Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the Nantucket wind farm as example). The near on to Luddite insistence of the greens to drag our society back to travelling in ox carts and reading by candlelight (yes I am being hyperbolic, but so are the greens, aren't they?) is a big part of what is keeping us mired in the situation we find ourselves in relative to development of alternate energy sources. |
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Jul 16, 2008 16:39:09 GMT -5
There is no logic in that and that's one of the major reasons why we need to get ourselves off oil dependence all together. Part of my concern with drilling domestically is that if it does drive prices down Americans will no longer demand fuel efficient cars or alternatives fuels. I had to smite you again. Your concerns are unfounded, and shows what little faith you have in your fellow human. I have been driving only fuel efficient cars since the last gas crunch. In fact, since I purchased a brand new car in like 1984 for the first time, I have only had four cylinder vehicles with only one exception. And I am not a liberal/progressive/nouveau-socialist. I do, however, have faith in my fellow human. Besides, if someone is willing to pay for their fuel, I could care less how much they use. You, on the other hand, would rather people starve because they must get to work, and the price of fuel is becoming prohibitive. Your ilk is responsible for every price increase that has happened, since this artificial fuel crisis has been manufactured by your ilks irresponsible or non-existent energy policies. Stick that in your tank and burn it. |
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Jul 16, 2008 16:46:18 GMT -5
I'm glad you've been driving a fuel efficient car but most of America latched onto the "bigger is better" mentality of the late 1990s when gas was cheap. They're, and American car companies, are paying for it now but will forget again as soon as gas is back under $3/ gallon.
I do care how much fuel people use because I believe it contributes to climate change which directly affect me.
|
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Jul 16, 2008 16:52:29 GMT -5
I'm glad you've been driving a fuel efficient car but most of America latched onto the "bigger is better" mentality of the late 1990s when gas was cheap. They're, and American car companies, are paying for it now but will forget again as soon as gas is back under $3/ gallon. I do care how much fuel people use because I believe it contributes to climate change which directly affect me. Well, where climate change is concerned, you are a fool to worry so much about it. Adapt, like all strong creatures do, or become extinct like the weak ones. Either way, no matter what we as humans do, there will be no change in climate change, nature will see to that and prove just how powerless you really are. Also, only a fool would believe that gas will fall back to $3 per gallon. |
|
|
|
Post by The New Guy on Jul 16, 2008 21:30:24 GMT -5
if it does drive prices down Americans will no longer demand fuel efficient cars or alternatives fuels. foolish! i suppose you believe the increse in cigarettes in the last decade or so made so many people quit, right? this may be true for some but most who quit have done so out of health concerns, not price. i still see people who will gladly spend 5 or 6 bucks on a pack of smokes. the difference between the smokes and gas is that people dont' really NEED the smokes to get to work. they do need the gas. |
|
|
|
Post by jgaffney on Jul 16, 2008 23:05:40 GMT -5
There is no logic in that and that's one of the major reasons why we need to get ourselves off oil dependence all together. Part of my concern with drilling domestically is that if it does drive prices down Americans will no longer demand fuel efficient cars or alternatives fuels. So, it sounds to me like you are all for higher petroleum prices, as long as it leads to reduced dependency on petroleum, right? In that case, why aren't you more up front about it? Why do you continue the masquerade of "excess profits taxes" and "price gouging"? This current situation is exactly what you wished for! You should be ecstatic! Meanwhile, the rest of America is suffering under high fuel costs, possibly even leading to a recession. But, hey! You got what you wanted! BTW, how are you coming along with that CNG Honda? |
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Jul 17, 2008 16:03:06 GMT -5
Yes, and while we are talking about fuel prices, let's talk economy as well. Fuel prices and the decline in the housing markets, are what have really damaged our economy, the war in Iraq is the scapegoat.
Why? Because the Democrats don't wish for people to put two and two together. If they did, they would realize that the housing markets downfall was due to policies pushed by the democrats to include more people in home ownership, regardless of their economic standing. The end result is what we are seeing in the housing market now.
Also, people might begin to wonder if the Democrats lack of a comprehensive energy policy may also be part of it, since they are the first to deny us access to our own resources in this country.
If McCain was paying attention as closely as he should, he would be banging Obama over the head with these two points. After all, he is a lock step Democrat for sure, voting with the party virtually every vote. When he votes that is. And, who is his campaign finance manager again? Penny Pritzker, a primary figure in the sub-prime lending schemes.
|
|
