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Post by saunterelle on Dec 8, 2008 17:15:38 GMT -5
The state of Hawaii has certified that they have Obama's birth certificate document on file and they have provided a copy. This would be more than enough verification to fulfill any of the things you mentioned.
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Post by barneyfife on Dec 8, 2008 17:20:25 GMT -5
The state of Hawaii has certified that they have Obama's birth certificate document on file and they have provided a copy. This would be more than enough verification to fulfill any of the things you mentioned. No..no it wouldn't. You or I could NOT go into a bank, show the copy released...TELL THEM that "oh yeah the state of Hawaii has the ACTUAL on file" and get an account nor a car nor a home. This just wouldn't work in a post 9/11 world shoot even prior to, maybe 15+ years ago, not anymore. The ACTUAL copy of the long form would work..not the copy he has been showing around. Don't believe me try to get a bank account with just a COLB and "Your word" that wherever you were born has the actual on file. Go renew your passport with a COLB, see how far you get. But it's okay to be POTUS? |
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Post by The Big Dog on Dec 8, 2008 17:29:25 GMT -5
He IS abiding by it. He has done all he needs to do. Do you think he was serving in the US Senate without anyone checking his birth certificate? This is just another ploy by Republicans to take our focus away from the issues. Serving in the United States Senate does not have the same citizenship requirements. Thirty seconds of research would have told you that. Let's also remember where he started his political career and how he got into the Illinois state senate. Once he was in, I am sure, his citizenship (again a far lower standard) was never questioned. The State of Hawaii has certified that they have the document. They have provided an abstract of the information on that document. Not a copy of the document itself. To date I have seen no official certification of the contents of that original document, save for the assertions of two local officials in Hawaii which were not bound by any legal authority. Please try to keep your facts straight. Words mean things in the law and in debate. You are quite adept, at times, in pointing out exactly that. Here you are telling us all to never mind. |
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 8, 2008 17:40:10 GMT -5
I am not saying never mind. I'm saying it's ridiculous to keep harping on this point and the US Supreme Court agrees.
Citizenship requirements for US Senate:
You must be a U.S. citizen for 9 years.
You must also live in the state you represent.
Citizenship requirements for Presidency:
You must be a natural born citizen of the United States to be President of the United States.
Is the issue that you think he was not born in the US? If this is true, at what point in time did Obama obtain US citizenship in order to be electable to the US Senate?
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Post by subdjoe on Dec 8, 2008 19:01:06 GMT -5
The questions you pose are the ones people want answered. And The Obama is stonewalling. What does he have to hide? Kind of like the national ID he supports - if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about, do you? So what is he trying to hide?
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Post by saunterelle on Dec 8, 2008 19:34:49 GMT -5
If Obama obtained US citizenship sometime after his birth there would be public record of it. Since there's not, we can only assume that the state of Hawaii is telling the truth and they do indeed have his original birth certificate on file. Unless you're suggesting some sort of conspiracy cover up...
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Post by The Big Dog on Dec 9, 2008 11:57:20 GMT -5
The Supreme Court, for what it's worth, has only addressed one case before it, the Donofrio case. The Keyes case is still out there, and the litigants would seem to have full standing. Until all of the 15 cases that have been brought are adjudicated one way or another, the question remains open.
I'm not suggesting anything, conspiratorial or otherwise. Quite obviously no one has ever checked at least to the point of verification. Nor am I assuming fact not in evidence, which you and everyone else who is dismissing the questions out of hand is doing. I am looking at what is documented and can be proven, so far, and saying that raises questions that merit answers. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp?
One can not assume anything in a question of law. In that sense it is like science. Things must be proven. Since we have only assertions of two government officials as to what the original document says, and a good deal of investigative legwork by people inside and outside the law has yet to turn up any evidence that Barack was actually born in a hospital on Oahu that leaves the question open.
Barack's continued refusal to produce the original document only leaves the question open and dangling.
What I think that you, and many others, fail to get is that there is a much larger issue than any partisan political angle at stake here. You all have no concept of law, and you clearly don't get that as a nation of laws it is important that those standards most central to the governance of our nation must be adhered to, and that there must be no question left unanswered.
If Barack were a Republican, a Green, a Libertarian, I would be raising the same question.
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