93 Yr. Old Man Froze to Death in his Home

[moondog]

Feb 7, 2009 16:26:03 GMT -5 Mink said:

This is just a follow up on this story:

www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/04/freezing.death.folo/index.html

WWII vet frozen to death leaves estate to hospital

By Wayne Drash
CNN

(CNN) -- A 93-year-old World War II medic who froze to death last month in his Bay City, Michigan, home left his entire estate to a local hospital, an estate attorney told CNN Wednesday.
snipped....

Unlike private utilities regulated by the state, Bay City runs and oversees its own utilities and therefore doesn't fall under Michigan's public service commission. By law, Michigan requires private companies to prohibit cutting off service to senior citizens between November and April. Seniors must register for the program.

The city has begun questioning whether its rules and procedures for limiting or cutting off power need a major overhaul. The utility has stopped its practice of cutting power to customers who don't pay their bills.

The utility also has removed all "limiters" on homes.

Walworth said someone should have looked at Schur's payment history and made direct contact to see whether something was wrong. He's hoping the nation will learn from his uncle's death.

"Hopefully, some good can come out of this. I'm still an optimist."

We'd like to think we as American, are the best! We received the best from this man. It's ashame he exited his fulfilled life in this fashion.

I would sincerely like to thank you for proving my point.

[Mink]

Did I? May I ask, how I proved your point?

[moondog]

By showing that liberal government was responsible for this man's death. If it had been a private energy company, it would have been illegal to turn off his power, but since it was government operated, there were no consequences. And, that is the type of Government you believe in, nay promote with great vigor, as well.

Yep, you can even see, in their effort to remove all limiters, that they do not have the best interest of their constituents in mind. Otherwise they would have subjected their own power company to the same rules as private industry.

Yep, if private industry had done this, jail time. However, government, especially liberal government, makes no mistakes. There fore there is no need for consequences.

[Mink]

Moondog, that doesn't make sense. Because of this man's death, they have stopped using the limiters and are reviewing policies. My concern is the country as a whole have let down seniors, the weak and vets in general.

I wasn't even veering towards which party is at fault but now that you mention it, is that why so many others in the weeks afterwards throughout the blizzardous states that froze to death and the Republicans don't see retructuring the electrical grid, good for the country (stimulus package)?

[The Big Dog]

Wait until the government takes over your health care. It's gonna really suck to die of a heart attack while waiting until some bureaucrat decides whether or not it's cost effective for you to have an angioplasty.

And remember... the older you get, the less care you are going to be deemed worthy of.

[Mink]

What do you mean, "wait until the government takes...blah, blah, blah...", Bush has ruined this country so much, most people are already there!

[The Big Dog]

Feb 10, 2009 19:59:40 GMT -5 Mink said:

Moondog, that doesn't make sense. Because of this man's death, they have stopped using the limiters and are reviewing policies. My doncern is the country as a whole have let down seniors, the weak and vets in general.

Why did someone have to die to get the bureaucrats to decide to review their policies? You are missing the point entirely.

I wasn't even veering towards which party is at fault but now that you mention it, is that why so many others in the weeks afterwards throughout the blizzardous states that froze to death and the Republicans don't see retructuring the electrical grid, good for the country (stimulus package)?

STRAWMAN ALERT!!!!

Mink what good, exactly, would a better grid have done in the case of this elderly man? The answer is none. It was not the grid that failed him, it was the city run power company that shut his ass off in the dead of winter and caused him to FREEZE TO DEATH.

Can't you stay on point?

[The Big Dog]

Feb 10, 2009 20:03:26 GMT -5 Mink said:

What do you mean, "wait until the government takes...blah, blah, blah...", Bush has ruined this country so much, most people are already there!

It's called an analogy...

Analogy is both the cognitive process of transferring information from a particular subject (the analogue or source) to another particular subject (the target), and a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process. In a narrower sense, analogy is an inference or an argument from one particular to another particular, as opposed to deduction, induction, and abduction, where at least one of the premises or the conclusion is general. The word analogy can also refer to the relation between the source and the target themselves, which is often, though not necessarily, a similarity, as in the biological notion of analogy.

Your invocation of Bush, yet again and tirelessly, is not a valid analogy. Rather it is yet another vague attempt at misdirection in argument. As much as it fails, I'd have thought you would have given it up by now.

I suppose though that it's too much to hope for.

Thank you for assessing me a karma point, by the way, for calling you on your BS. The count was at 24 right before I posted. Now it's 23. And since you and I are the only users logged in right now, and I can't affect my own "Karma Kount", that sort of narrows it down.

[Mink]

You know, I started this thread because it was a needless death.
Not only was this man able to afford his bills, but he was an honorable veteran.

You can slice this anyway you want, and if you want to bring politics in this, they are all to blame, because this isn't the first vet or senior that has died needlessly in history. I think you guys just miss arguing with me

Our country needs to wake up!

[The Big Dog]

Whether he was able to afford his bills or not, a ten cent phone call from the city utility might have solved it and he might not have frozen to death. The city couldn't do that because they were "just following the rules". Which are different from government mandated rules that apply to all non municipal utilities in the state.

Yes our country does need to wake up. We need to get government out of the business of doing business. We need to reduce government, not grow it.

I don't miss arguing with you. I very much enjoy pointing it out when you are wrong, which is most of the time.

[Mink]

Big Dog:

"I don't miss arguing with you. I very much enjoy pointing it out when you are wrong, which is most of the time."

That, is your opinion. You like to be correct all the time and getting the last word in edgewise as you belittle your supposed opponent.......what most of our disagreements are, are different view points which doesn't make me wrong or you right.

Back to the topic, my point was, regardless of politics, government or private companies go, it is our ethics in general that have let this man down. It has let down the people who have froze to death this winter.

[The Big Dog]

Feb 10, 2009 20:40:55 GMT -5 Mink said:

That, is your opinion. You like to be correct all the time and getting the last word in edgewise as you belittle your supposed opponent.......

Hmmmm... in a word, no. I advocate a position that I believe in and believe to be correct. Thats what happens in debate. If you weren't so disengenous most of the time it might go better for you. When you set up fallacious strawmen it becomes necessary to knock them down.

what most of our disagreements are, are different view points which doesn't make me wrong or you right.

Again... debate. You are correct that "right and wrong" have nothing to do with it. Not in the exchange of ideas anyway.

Back to the topic, my point was, regardless of politics, government or private companies go, it is our ethics in general that have let this man down. It has let down the people who have froze to death this winter.

How is it that "our ethics" let him down? Don't paint me with that brush. If your theory is that the "ethics" of big government as the solution to every one of man's problems, that you support politically and intellectually, is what killed this man, then I agree with you 100%. It was the bureaucracy of the city owned utility that let him down and the "ethics" of the population in general have absolutely nothing to do with it.

We no longer control our government... it controls us. Hence the problem.