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Post by subdjoe on Apr 13, 2009 1:21:43 GMT -5
Again, when is Congress going to get its thumbs out and issue letters of marque to US flaged M/Vs? While they can, techically now, arm themselves, the letters of marque would make it almost impossible for some panty wetting liberals to go after THEM for piracy for daring to defend themselves. Throw some 5 in. 38s onto some Lykes Lines, and other US flags. let them blow the scum out of the water. But our "leaders" in congress can't get their thumbs (or heads) out, and would wet their pants over the idea of honest Americans being able to defend themselves.
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Post by joe on Apr 13, 2009 15:18:28 GMT -5
For what it's worth, Obama gave the order to shoot, and now it's done! Further more, 12-16 Navy ships per 1,000,000 miles of ocean, what do you want? Door to door limo service? Our military is stretched WAY too thin, don't you all think?! Sorry, but I give Obama credit to order the deaths of the three men, sort of discounts the idea that he doesn't have the balls... I think you are giving BHO too much credit. He signed an order allowing HIGHLY TRAINED NAVY SEALS, to remedy the situation when given the chance. I'm sure he had no idea of the specifics, called plausible deniability, in case the "do or die" situation his inaction created ends poorly for us. He waited ENTIRELY too long to do so and created an even more dangerous high risk uncontrolled "Do or Die" scenario. Which are the scenarios seals and other high level operators are trained to avoid. There are too many tangibles involved in rescue ops, to let them become "Do or Die" if avoidable which this was. So Yes Obama gets some credit, just not nearly as much as people are heaping on him. |
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Post by subdjoe on Apr 13, 2009 15:49:48 GMT -5
Actually, O-BOW-ma DID NOT start any kind of rescue, nor did he give any specific orders. All he did was to confirm the standing rules of engagement. So, no, The One didn't do anything special or noteworthy in this case.
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Post by joe on Apr 13, 2009 17:29:25 GMT -5
Not to mention this brave captain is one man of about 260 people currently being held by Somali "Pirates".
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 13, 2009 18:19:21 GMT -5
now doubt hollywood screenwriters are busy at their keyboards creating an "epic" drama starring the amazing obama.
disallusioned people (mainly lefties) have the image that obama was sitting on the phone with the seal team members and said "shoot!"
as joe pointed out, he gave an overall green light. presidents do not give direct action orders. battlefield commanders have that responsibility.
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Post by The Avenger on Apr 13, 2009 19:02:15 GMT -5
Frankly, I'm surprised B.O. didn't wait on a UN security council resolution condemning the pirates. Something tells me that was on his contingency list.  Here's something funny I swiped from another site regarding the Vatican's rejection of Princess (somebody feed her!) Caroline Kennedy on moral grounds: "I'm very proud of our Pope. Frankly BO is the only valid argument for abortion. Sadly his mother went to Kenya and had him anyway." |
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Post by JustMyOpinion on Apr 13, 2009 19:50:58 GMT -5
I wasn't particularly giving Obama major kudos, but pointing out that it seems he does have the ability to order the "kill" if deemed necessary, contrary to the majority opinion in this forum.
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 13, 2009 21:45:39 GMT -5
all hail obama! all hail obama!
actually, Obie had less authority than you might think. this would be similar to police officers handling a hostage situation. if they deem that a captive's life is in imminent danger they are already authorized (and duty bound) to eliminate the threat.
but, of course, the white house is not being shy at all about taking credit. had it gone bad and the hostage killed you can bet your sweet ass that the white house would be saying, "well, the president authorized general use of force and the commander on the scene made the unfortunate call to strike thus causing harm to the hostage."
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Post by Mink on Apr 14, 2009 0:22:16 GMT -5
Pres. Obama authorized the action taken in international waters and it was a good call. Months before he left, then Pres. Bush dealt with the same issues Obama will be dealing with re: Somali pirates. www.asil.org/insights090206.cfm |
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Post by joe on Apr 14, 2009 12:28:45 GMT -5
I wasn't particularly giving Obama major kudos, but pointing out that it seems he does have the ability to order the "kill" if deemed necessary, contrary to the majority opinion in this forum. But you see this is where you are 110% wrong. He didn't order a "Kill" he approved NAVY SEALS to "Take Action" he had no knowledge of WHAT that action would be exactly. You see the President waited a long time while an American had a fully auto AK47 aimed at his head, on a boat in the middle of the sea held by a child, the pitch and sway of the boat alone could have killed the man. Oh sorry back on point, so he waited until it became a "Do or Die" situation and although Navy Seal snipers are trained for such contact, it is always the worst option. The captain at the time the man decided to green light "ACTION" had about an 83% chance of dying, due to it being a "Do or Die" shoot. Again pitch of the boat, wind speed , humidity, barrel nuance, shell manufacture flukes and the most notorious of conditions on the ocean in mirage, salt mist causing problem with sniper vision and the wave action which makes hits high risk, are the absolute reasons, one never allows an immediate act situation ever develop, especially on the ocean. I'm not sure a great many people understand a human body, even with a perfect "Kill Shot" hostages can die, due to the bodies "Dance of Death" and a fully auto AK47. It isn't the movies where a body drops and lies still, just doesn't happen legs kick, arms seize, random muscles will spasm. Kudos for him having the stones to let operators operate, but order a "kill" laughable. His work with the Drones in Pakistan would be more of him "Ordering a Kill" as he has a better understanding of the capabilities of the "Drone". |
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Post by The Big Dog on Apr 14, 2009 13:59:48 GMT -5
The President signed off on the rules of engagement, nothing more. It is up to the commanders on the spot, and the shooters who have to do what turned out to be necessary, to judge when force is to be used within the rules of engagement and at what level.
Anyone who believes that Barack personally ordered action needs to stop watching so many episodes of 24.
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Post by joe on Apr 14, 2009 15:22:23 GMT -5
JMO, Mink I ask you this.
If this was YOU or YOUR FAMILY MEMBER in that boat with a full auto AK 47 pointed at your brain, with the pitch and roll of the ocean and a less than sane child holding said gun at your brain.
Would you feel this "approval of action" by the POTUS was swift enough?
If you say yes, you're lying. They should have had the approval the FIRST time this heroic man jumped off the boat in attempt to save his own life.
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