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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 5, 2008 15:14:42 GMT -5
Thus, our founding fathers emphasized the separation of church and state. Please show where that was emphasized by the founders. In any other way than stating that there would be no "state religion". |
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 5, 2008 15:21:35 GMT -5
"Fairness" is your argument Saunterelle, which does mean that it is "the" argument. Gay couples are not unequal in the eyes of the law. They have no standing, as per the voters twice. Let's start by noting that life isn't fair, no matter how much you want to try to make it so. The fact remains that all gay couples in California have all the rights and privileges concerning finances and survivorship available to them already through civil union. The only thing they lack is a government issued "marriage license" that would magically make their unions binding across all fifty states under the full faith and credit clause. So what this comes down to is that an arguably small minority (the gays) want to force, with the help of their friends, their view of how they want it to be on an arguably overwhelming majority. The majority, even with the infusion of hundreds of thousands of Obama voters in this cycle, has said no. And that, as I pointed out above clearly illustrates just how The last time I looked our system was still majority, not minority, rules. In fact, the majority has spoken twice now on this issue in very clear and measured terms. So while you are perfectly within your right to piss and moan about unfairness, spread your anti-religion (atheistic, per chance???) dogma and portray it as a somehow a bigoted or "homophobic" stance, the fact remains that the majority has spoken. Deal with it. Wow, this is exactly the same sort of talk that we heard when black Americans women were fighting for their civil rights. |
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 5, 2008 15:54:57 GMT -5
Nice mix of apples and oranges. Can't you stay on point?
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 5, 2008 15:57:39 GMT -5
Saunterelle, you claim it it all about being fair. Yet you want to tax some people at a much higher rate than others. Please explain to us how that is fair? You want judges to invent new civil rights to extend to fringe groups, yet do away with specifially enumerated rights. How is that fair?
Remember this day Saunterelle, and your appeal to fairness. I plan to beat the crap out of you with your appeal to fairness for the next two years.
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Post by surefire on Nov 5, 2008 20:03:16 GMT -5
Could be that people in this state are getting fed up with the fringe left. And fringe left judges making law from the bench. I wouldn't take that bet. The fringe left, IMO, control this state. |
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 5, 2008 20:43:33 GMT -5
Check this map: www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0 for how the counties voted for Prop 8. No idea why Mono & Alpine voted No on it, but it looks like the only real support for it was in the urban coastal counties, and not all of those. As I said, could be that the PEOPLE in the state are starting to get fed up. The Burton Machine capons may still run the state, but it looks like some of the people are getting restless. |
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Post by surefire on Nov 5, 2008 20:49:31 GMT -5
Check this map: www.latimes.com/news/local/politics/cal/la-2008election-california-results,0,1293859.htmlstory?view=8&tab=0&fnum=0 for how the counties voted for Prop 8. No idea why Mono & Alpine voted No on it, but it looks like the only real support for it was in the urban coastal counties, and not all of those. As I said, could be that the PEOPLE in the state are starting to get fed up. The Burton Machine capons may still run the state, but it looks like some of the people are getting restless. I hope your right Subdjoe. If memory serves,most interior (rural) counties in CA are red... The problem is the blue controls most of the coast counties and lots of big to huge population counties. The bigger problem seems to be that the Bay Area metro area attracts the tinfoil lefties. I think most of us could work with moderate lefties, but they seem hard to find in a lot of CA. |
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 5, 2008 20:59:06 GMT -5
Mono County is very rural, very sparsely populated and leans a lot closer to Nevada republican politics than it does to California. Alpine County only has about 5000 residents, and tends to be very red.
If you ever want California's votes for president to matter for something then let's get our electoral college votes apportioned by Congressional district with the two Senate votes going to the top vote getter. If we had that, instead of winner take all, everyone's vote really would count.
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 5, 2008 21:07:21 GMT -5
This is exactly why I think the districts for our Legislature should be by county. One state senator per county, apportion assembly by population except that every county have at least one representative in the assembly.
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Post by surefire on Nov 5, 2008 21:27:30 GMT -5
Mono County is very rural, very sparsely populated and leans a lot closer to Nevada republican politics than it does to California. Alpine County only has about 5000 residents, and tends to be very red. If you ever want California's votes for president to matter for something then let's get our electoral college votes apportioned by Congressional district with the two Senate votes going to the top vote getter. If we had that, instead of winner take all, everyone's vote really would count. Agree I think all states should do this. |
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 6, 2008 13:21:43 GMT -5
Back on topic.... If there is any one person for the gay lobby and their friends to blame in all of this, it would be San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsome. He appeared in TV and radio spots using this sound bite from when the court overturned the previous initiative. He turned out to be the worst enemy of his own friends with his big mouth. I heard this bite described as being like him "sitting on your chest and punching you in the face repeatedly", and that is about right. When this started airing in September the polls did a huge about face and never looked back. Predictably, some in the national punditry have given this scenario a name. It is now known as the "Newsome Effect". |
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Post by bolverk on Nov 6, 2008 14:16:09 GMT -5
Old Gavin Newsom and San Francisco are becoming as marginalized as Berkeley. Old Gavin is going to continue to issue marriage license against the will of the people. He should be prosecuted.
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