|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 24, 2009 9:43:46 GMT -5
www.ktvu.com/news/21093360/detail.html?treets=fran&tml=fran_break&ts=T&tmi=fran_break_1_07530109232009This was in California. Which still has an assault weapons ban. This was in California. Which has a State DOJ background check. This was in Califronia. Which has a 10 day waiting period. This was in California. Which has a safety test before picking up any hand gun. This was in California. In which you must show that you have a new, state approved, gun lock or state approved gun safe before picking up any firearm. This was in California. Which makes it a crime for the gun owner if a minor breaks into the safe or manages to get the gun lock off and causes harm. This is California, where if parents takes this to heart: "Authorities said the father is an army reservist. Police said no matter a parent's experience with guns, it's important to talk about gun safety with children. "You need to teach your children the difference between a live firearm and a toy firearm or a fake firearm,” said Sgt. Spruill. “We'd also like parents to teach their kids to consider any firearm, a real or replica, always consider it loaded." and actually teach children about firearm safety they are deamonized and may have CPS called on them. This happened BECAUSE of the anti-gun laws and attitudes in California. Not in spite of them
|
|
|
|
Post by The Big Dog on Sept 24, 2009 23:34:01 GMT -5
Well on the one hand I have to agree with Sgt. Spruill of Vacaville PD....
** A firearm is a firearm, whether it's a toy or not. Don't point it at anything you don't fully intend to destroy.
** A firearm is always loaded, no matter how many times you look in the chamber.
If the weapon was secured with a safe or a gun lock, then that would go to show just how clever even 8 year olds can be.
But the real meat of the matter is exactly as subdjoe postulates..... training. Why, I ask, is an abject fear of firearms instilled in our children by the education system and not a proper respect?
Very tragic.
|
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 25, 2009 2:02:29 GMT -5
Thanks Big Dog. As I have stated here before, I literally grew up around firearms. In an open rack, ammo in the drawer of the rack. My dad kept his loaded pistol in a drawer, we all knew where it was. None of us ever shot anyone. None of our friends ever handled the guns, even though they were in plain sight. Well, unless we were going off to shoot at the old quarry or the old dump. Guns were a part of just about everyones life. This wasn't in a big city, but it wasn't out in the sticks, either. Just inland from Oceanside.
What was the differenece? Guns and gun owers were not demonized. It was considered quite normal that kids were taught to shoot safely quite young. Now kids get kicked out of school for having a photo of themselves at the range and parents get called in and told they need to spend time with a pshrink.
|
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Sept 25, 2009 15:03:39 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with gun laws, it is irresponsible gun owners who leave guns where their children can access them.
If anything, it illustrates the need for better safety features like fingerprint sensors so that only the registered owner may fire the gun.
|
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 25, 2009 15:23:30 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with gun laws, it is irresponsible gun owners who leave guns where their children can access them. If anything, it illustrates the need for better safety features like fingerprint sensors so that only the registered owner may fire the gun. Go back and READ what I wrote in my response to Big Dog. I'm all for the fingerprint sensors - let it be tested in the militay and law enforcement for 10 years first. Would the manufacturers of that technology be liable to lawsuit when it failed? Would, oh, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs be sued when their programming failed? Would Intel be sued because a honest citzen didn't have his finger just right on the grip and he was killed by the thug? |
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Sept 25, 2009 15:56:52 GMT -5
This has nothing to do with gun laws, it is irresponsible gun owners who leave guns where their children can access them. If anything, it illustrates the need for better safety features like fingerprint sensors so that only the registered owner may fire the gun. Go back and READ what I wrote in my response to Big Dog. I'm all for the fingerprint sensors - let it be tested in the militay and law enforcement for 10 years first. Would the manufacturers of that technology be liable to lawsuit when it failed? Would, oh, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs be sued when their programming failed? Would Intel be sued because a honest citzen didn't have his finger just right on the grip and he was killed by the thug? How many home intruders are shot annually vs. accidents involving guns occur in the home? Do you really think the deamonization of guns and their owners led to this 8 year old deciding to pull the trigger? |
|
|
|
Post by capttankona on Sept 25, 2009 16:08:44 GMT -5
No, I don't think demonization led to this eight year old making the worst mistake of his young life. I do think that he demonization has led to a lack of education where guns are concerned though. And this was clearly a case of doing what was wrong because he lacked the education to not do it.
Whose fault is that?
Both the owner of the gun and the people who demonize them.
The owner had a responsibility to educated the child. The people who have demonized guns are responsible for the lack of firearm education in public schools and other places. Proper respect and responsibility must be taught about firearms at every opportunity.
|
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Sept 25, 2009 16:14:39 GMT -5
No, I don't think demonization led to this eight year old making the worst mistake of his young life. I do think that he demonization has led to a lack of education where guns are concerned though. And this was clearly a case of doing what was wrong because he lacked the education to not do it. Whose fault is that? Both the owner of the gun and the people who demonize them. The owner had a responsibility to educated the child. The people who have demonized guns are responsible for the lack of firearm education in public schools and other places. Proper respect and responsibility must be taught about firearms at every opportunity. Then you will agree that guns should only be sold to people who have demonstrated a thorough understanding of gun safety and responsible usage. More restrictions are needed. |
|
|
|
Post by capttankona on Sept 25, 2009 16:35:18 GMT -5
No, I believe that we should go back to teching gun safety to the young, so they don't make such a tragic mistake. I believe that if the owner of a gun is found negligent in it's storage then there shoud be consequences. I do not believe in more restrictions, unless the city and county government accept full responsibility and culpability for their actions that lead to more violent deaths because people cannot get or use a firearm to defend themselves.
I am tired of cities and counties being exempt from lawsuits for their policies that end up harming their constituents. Like gun free zones. Most of those laws do not protect the people they are meant to protect. To many feel good laws that are useless taking away from good policy that allows citizens the right to protect themselves.
Fewer restrictions are need and more consequences are needed when we do something illegal with the gun. Up to and including a death penalty for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
|
|
|
|
Post by capttankona on Sept 25, 2009 16:36:23 GMT -5
Just to give you an idea of what I mean by gun safety, to this day I can not even point a toy gun at a person. My father taught me well.
|
|
|
|
Post by saunterelle on Sept 25, 2009 16:55:35 GMT -5
Then your father should be allowed to own a gun.
You see, when guns are allowed to be owned by anyone, there will be all kinds of accidents when they fall into irresponsible hands.
|
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 25, 2009 16:56:28 GMT -5
Go back and READ what I wrote in my response to Big Dog. I'm all for the fingerprint sensors - let it be tested in the militay and law enforcement for 10 years first. Would the manufacturers of that technology be liable to lawsuit when it failed? Would, oh, Bill Gates or Steve Jobs be sued when their programming failed? Would Intel be sued because a honest citzen didn't have his finger just right on the grip and he was killed by the thug? How many home intruders are shot annually vs. accidents involving guns occur in the home? Per USDOJ at least 600,000 crimes are prvented each year because an honest citizen had a gun. In only about 2% of those is the gun fired. Other estimates run into the low 2 millions. So, counting dead thugs is a red herring. It doesn't matter how many are shot, the number of crimes prevented is the key. And that is a hard number to pin down because is the gun isn't fired and no crime is committed, then usually no report is filed. But then, you knew that, didnt you?
The number of accidents in the home is quite low.
Some statistics from the National Safety Council: The average Americans chances of dying
In any accident 1 in 23
By a vehicle while walking 1 in 612
Fall from bed, chair, furntiture 1 in 4745
Firearm accident 1 in 4888
Per one anti-gun group (LCAV)there are about 2 injuries for every death. In 2005 there were about 700 accidental deaths, all circumstances, so a total of about 1400 accidental injuries if that anti-gun group is correct. Do you really think the deamonization of guns and their owners led to this 8 year old deciding to pull the trigger? Yes, I do. Because he was not taught proper safety and was not provided the chance to practice. As I said, I grew up with guns. My brothers and I all knew where dad kept his loaded pistol. By the age of five I knew how to check all our guns to see if they were loaded and knew that unless dad was there. We went shooting at least once a month. Without people like you chanting 'gunz-r-bad' and demonizing everyone who owns guns, and placing more and more restrictions on gun ownership, likely that kid would have been to the range several dozen times in the last few years, would have had practice with that gun, would have had the mystery taken way. So, in an indirct way YOU killed that two year old because of the paranoia you support. How does that feel, Killer? YOU had a part in it. |
|
