Did the US provoke war: Russia vs Georgia?

[Mink]

Aug 14, 2008 14:51:53 GMT -5 jgaffney said:

Aug 11, 2008 21:32:28 GMT -5 Mink said:

Are you saying you voted for the US to provoke more war for the sake of oil?

Mink, I have asked you this in the past: Please give us your vision of the world if we were allowed to be held hostage by aggressive countries hoarding their petroleum. What would happen to our economy? What would happen to the economy of the entire western world? Wars over resources are not new - read your history. The only thing that's changed here is that a Republican holds the White House. If it were a Dem at 1600 Penn Ave, you'd be singing an entirely different tune, I'm sure.

I have posted years ago how the oil pipeline has been in our midst.....I think the link goes back to the 1920's and has Dems involved as well. The reason I posted the link was to support my opinion that the bush administration (most of them), have history with oil, hence their many lies to go into Iraq. I fully support going after the 9/11 perpetrators, but Iraq had nothing to do with 3000 lives.

None of you admitted bush's unilateral war was about oil......funny how you have changed your tune.

[harpman1]

Oil, oil, oil.

Iraq was not about oil.
Georgia was not about oil.

You are hallucinatory, obsessed, dishonest, predictable & boring.

Mostly boring.

One, just one piece of EVIDENCE, not conjecture, not rumor, not fearmongering, that oil was solely at the root of any U.S. war ever.

You are no different than the truthers.

You repeat unsubstantiatable, but exciting fantasies in order to validate your hatred of Pres. George W. Bush.

This is a debate club. You do not debate, you bore.

[The New Guy]

allow me, mink to hit you up side the head yet again with this:

if we were in it for oil why didn't we just "BUY" it? sure would have saved billions of $$ and thousands of lives.

if were were in it for oil why didn't we just "invade" saudi arabia? they have more than iraq and rolling over their military (SANG) would be a cakewalk.

why? why? why?

[Mink]

Aug 17, 2008 12:22:41 GMT -5 harpman1 said:

Oil, oil, oil.

Iraq was not about oil.
Georgia was not about oil.

You are hallucinatory, obsessed, dishonest, predictable & boring.

Mostly boring.

One, just one piece of EVIDENCE, not conjecture, not rumor, not fearmongering, that oil was solely at the root of any U.S. war ever.

You are no different than the truthers.

You repeat unsubstantiatable, but exciting fantasies in order to validate your hatred of Pres. George W. Bush.

This is a debate club. You do not debate, you bore.

If you look again at the banner, just under the NorCal Debate Club.....it says "For those who aren't afraid to form an opinion"

However, the oil is a real thing.

[Mink]

Aug 17, 2008 12:55:23 GMT -5 The New Guy said:

allow me, mink to hit you up side the head yet again with this:

if we were in it for oil why didn't we just "BUY" it? sure would have saved billions of $$ and thousands of lives.

if were were in it for oil why didn't we just "invade" saudi arabia? they have more than iraq and rolling over their military (SANG) would be a cakewalk.

why? why? why?

There is a pipeline that has been in progress for decades. Remember, I provided a link that you all squashed as unrealistic and I must be a bush-hater. The pipeline goes through Afghanistan, it also goes north, up through Georgia and south through Iraq. Would you like me to re-post? There you will also see the history of the bush admin. with their money hungry, oil grabbing, greedy hands stretching for this pipeline

[harpman1]

Oil is everywhere.

Bushitler is everywhere.

Cheneyburton is everywhere.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.


Children.

[crossride]

I for one am so glad that we invaded Iraq for the oil. And now that we've provoked the Russians to go into Georgia, its all the better. Without all this war to gain control of the oil, the prices might have gone up in the .... oh, never mind.

[jgaffney]

How about this view:

Charles Krauthammer writes about it very well today in a column that I have from the National Review website. He describes what Russia is trying to do as the Finlandization of Georgia, the isolation of Georgia. If they succeed -- and they want Saakashvili out, this is about regime change. Despite what Vitaly Churkin said yesterday, this is totally about regime change. It's Putin being able to put a Russian puppet in to run Georgia. That would give Russia control of a huge oil pipeline, the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan. That pipeline is "the only significant European-bound route for Caspian Sea oil and gas that does not go through Russia." They want it. "Pipelines are the economic lifelines of such former Soviet republics as Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan that live off energy exports."

Moscow, if they succeed in isolating Georgia and basically installing a puppet Russian leader to run the country, would become the master of the Caspian basin. So they would be in charge of every oil pipeline feeding Europe to the West. Folks, this is a different Russia than when the wall came down. That Russia was broke. This Russia is flush. This Russia has lots of money via its own oil sales. So this war, while it's all about Russia asserting itself and Russia trying to rebuild its empire, not the Soviet Union, but it's empire, while it's all about testing the West, it's all about seeing what we will do, will we do anything besides words, that's what they want to find out. There's some things that we could do, but it doesn't look like Europeans or even State Department Americans want to do anything to stop this. It doesn't look like Obama has the slightest bit of understanding what this is about or how to deal with it or that he even finds it wrong. But this, ladies and gentlemen, is about that pipeline. The Russians reportedly just barely missed when they bombed that pipeline. I don't think it was like a bare miss. I think it was right on target. I think it's a warning shot. So put this in your pipe and smoke it. While the Russians are trying to co-opt and conquer a country for an oil pipeline that will give them total control of all the oil and gas pipelines that feed western Europe, while they are doing everything they can to strengthen their oil producers, while they are doing everything they can to strengthen their oil business, we are doing everything we can to weaken ours.

Kinda makes the "No Blood For Oil" crowd look silly, doesn't it?

[Mink]

only if you trust Charles Krauthammer ....sigh

[harpman1]

You know, just because the facts don't fit the narrative, it doesn't mean the facts are lies.

[Mink]

...it just confirms the facts.

[Mink]

While the bush admin. carefully wedged a divisive country, and we've been arguing about the war in Iraq, they have been working hard at creating another one as I've suggested earlier.
However, Democrats should stay disciplined on this one:

wiredispatch.com/news/?id=311419

But Rep. Ellen Tauscher, D-Calif., one of the authors of the restrictions, said Democrats will not bend on testing.

"The events in Georgia have nothing to do with the interceptors the U.S. is considering deploying in Poland, and Congress believes that this system is untested and fails to defend against current and emerging threats," she said in a written response to questions from The Associated Press.

"Congress will not be funding an untested system, period," Tauscher said.
________________________________________

Tell me the US (bush) didn't initiate this........another cold war or what?