|
|
Post by Mink on Sept 26, 2008 0:13:52 GMT -5
Is this all you've got? A fetus is a separate being? If that is the case, what physical use is a woman?
You avoid the issue of choice....it is a woman's choice and sometimes a common one with the father of the fetus. It could be a case of rape or incest or the health of the mother or even the case of an unhealthy baby....ie spinal bifida or even a special needs case. In the special needs case, not everyone is financially, emotionally or physically capable of providing care for its' lifetime.
I am not condoning abortion at all, but it isn't up to you or I to decide for her.
You keep insisting and demanding that I not take a "leftist" position. What political position are you taking? And you are you to tell me what to do?
|
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 26, 2008 8:07:57 GMT -5
Mink, how about refuting the points with verifialbe informantion? Not just feelings, not just leftist talking points and emotionalism (I'm NOT demanind that you not take a leftist position, I'm calling on you to support it with FACT, not empty rhetoric). I've posted stuff that shows that a fetus, while it may be connected to the mother and growing inside her is biologically not a part of her body. You claim it is and she is free to do whatever she wants with it.
So again, please show with something verifiable that a fetus is part of womans body. So far all you have done is echo the the leftist claims that it is her "choice". Yeah, it is. The real question is her choice to do what to whom? I'm not arguing the social issues about poverty or education. And, Yes, I have heard all the lefts horror stories about the tens of millions who are victims of rape or incest who have to have abortions every year, so no need to trot that out yet again.
So, please show that the points I posted are incorrect. Verifiable fact that a fetus is a part of a womans body. I'm not saying to not take the lefts position, just back it up with something besides "well it is her choice what to do with her body" since it seems that one of the bodies really isn't hers.
Added - I think what has my back up on this issue is the tactics of the left - set the language of the debate so that it seems to not be about abortion but about 'rights' and 'choice.' Then claim that anyone who is against using abortion as a prefered method of birth control is automatically an anti-rigths, anti-woman troglodite who blindly follows some sort of totalitarian agenda.
Here is a pronouncement from someone you claim to respect: "Of course, abortion, from a Buddhist viewpoint, is an act of killing and is negative, generally speaking. But it depends on the circumstances. If the birth will create serious problems for the parent, these are cases where there can be an exception. I think abortion should be approved or disapproved according to each circumstance." Sure as hell doesn't sound like abortion on demand, does it?
|
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Sept 26, 2008 10:52:00 GMT -5
There is already one political party running the show. It is time to offer both alternatives, and not present only one possible solution. That is called deception, and I am tired of it. I'm sure both alternatives are offered, but it is the choice of some women that is offensive. It doesn't make it ethical, but it is her choice. That is right, it is her choice. And, if it is not ethical, then why the hell is it legal? But, to me it is not about ethics so much as selfishness, instant gratification and a throw away society. We have hit rock bottom, and the abortion rates prove we are not the moral society we used to be. Why, because both positions are not being put forth. Adoption is not even mentioned on Planned Parenthood's website that I could find. |
|
|
|
Post by JustMyOpinion on Sept 26, 2008 13:56:21 GMT -5
Bolverk, you said:
"But, to me it is not about ethics so much as selfishness, instant gratification and a throw away society. We have hit rock bottom, and the abortion rates prove we are not the moral society we used to be. Why, because both positions are not being put forth. Adoption is not even mentioned on Planned Parenthood's website that I could find."
Isn't that because there isn't a easy access adoption plan (so to speak) available? I believe it's somewhat difficult to adopt with legalities, costs etc. It would be wonderful if it was easy for a mother to get pre-natal help, living assistance etc. I think most young girls wouldn't know where to turn for help, or how to start the process. How do we make revamp the system so that young mothers know where to go for help?
|
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 26, 2008 14:09:22 GMT -5
JMO, why can't Planned Parenthood and other similar organizations at least provide information on adoption? They seem quite adept at helping 12 year olds get abortions behind their partents backs. And they all seem to be able to provide information and contacts for other services. Seems like they should be able to help with information about adoptions too.
Oh, wait. Planned Parenthood is direct decendent of that racist and eugenicist Margaret Sanger. Of COURSE they don't want these girls having children. Sorry, my bad. I forgot about that for a minute.
|
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Sept 26, 2008 14:21:01 GMT -5
Bolverk, you said:" But, to me it is not about ethics so much as selfishness, instant gratification and a throw away society. We have hit rock bottom, and the abortion rates prove we are not the moral society we used to be. Why, because both positions are not being put forth. Adoption is not even mentioned on Planned Parenthood's website that I could find."Isn't that because there isn't a easy access adoption plan (so to speak) available? I believe it's somewhat difficult to adopt with legalities, costs etc. It would be wonderful if it was easy for a mother to get pre-natal help, living assistance etc. I think most young girls wouldn't know where to turn for help, or how to start the process. How do we make revamp the system so that young mothers know where to go for help? I think you and I are on the same page in this. We need to balance the abortion funding with an adoption funding program. Then there would be a better range of possible choices. |
|
|
|
Post by JustMyOpinion on Sept 26, 2008 14:52:22 GMT -5
Bolverk, I agree with you on the following:
"I think you and I are on the same page in this. We need to balance the abortion funding with an adoption funding program. Then there would be a better range of possible choices."
I would add that we try to prevent young girls/women from getting pregnant altogether with better comprehensive sex education (and for those who are pregnant make it easier to give the baby up for adoption). I know parents who've struggled to have children and turned to adoption only to be disappointed. Two couples that I know adopted from Europe, and I met a mother recently who'd adopted from China. It would be great to see American children adopted into families that would appreciate and love them every day too!
|
|
|
|
Post by JustMyOpinion on Sept 26, 2008 14:57:22 GMT -5
subdjoe, I think Planned Parenthood doesn't post anything about adoption because it is too subjective, and where would they refer the young girls to? I didn't think that minors can have abortions without consent anymore...hhhmmm Oh, and since we're on the right to be born subject... Happy Birthday!Added:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minors_and_abortionThis is interesting, look at the US map and colored legends for parental approval and abortions, it is varied. |
|
|
|
Post by subdjoe on Sept 26, 2008 17:09:15 GMT -5
Thank you, JMO!
|
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Sept 29, 2008 15:17:32 GMT -5
Bolverk, I agree with you on the following: "I think you and I are on the same page in this. We need to balance the abortion funding with an adoption funding program. Then there would be a better range of possible choices." I would add that we try to prevent young girls/women from getting pregnant altogether with better comprehensive sex education (and for those who are pregnant make it easier to give the baby up for adoption). I know parents who've struggled to have children and turned to adoption only to be disappointed. Two couples that I know adopted from Europe, and I met a mother recently who'd adopted from China. It would be great to see American children adopted into families that would appreciate and love them every day too! The problem with better comprehensive sex education is this, we have had pretty good sex education in the past, but when I see extremely young girls walking around pregnant, they tend to be from a specific culture. Not so much American girls, as girls from a culture that follows the old adage, barefoot and pregnant. How do you combat that? |
|
|
|
Post by bolverk on Sept 29, 2008 15:18:29 GMT -5
Belated birthday wishes subdjoe.
|
|
