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Post by saunterelle on Sept 24, 2008 17:49:24 GMT -5
Then can you please clarify what you meant?
Again, please clarify your views then.
Fair enough, guess I just assumed.
Fair argument. In that case more people ought to choose to have the child and give it up for adoption. However, I believe they should have the right to choose abortion through the first trimester.
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Post by saunterelle on Sept 24, 2008 18:00:36 GMT -5
So, Saunterelle, when exactly DOES life begin? Seems like as soon as you have that first cellular division, and have a unique genetic signiture, you have life. Or is that unique set of cells somehow not alive? So, don't go off onto stem cells, or anything else, just tell us, in your expert scientific view, WHEN does life start? There are some on the pro-abortion side that say that a person some how really a person until 30 (or 40) days after birth and that any "deformed" baby may be killed with no problem. The point at which life begins is to a large extent simply opinion, so debating it is somewhat pointless. To me, life starts when there is evidence (as determined by scientific evaluation) of a consciousness or sense of feeling and being. This includes things like feeling pain, movement, and the beginnings of a thought process. This point is reached somewhere well beyond the first trimester of pregnancy. During the first trimester, it is simply a cluster of cells, granted, with a unique genetic makeup with potential to become a human, but a cluster of cells nonetheless. Putting human value on it at this stage is ignorant of reality. I know there are some with extreme views on the pro-choice side and I am just as passionate as you are about disallowing abortions after the first trimester. |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:04:31 GMT -5
Spare me. Abortion doesn't kill the future or America. In most cases the would be parent simply waits until they are financially and emotionally prepared to bring a child into this world. Then they have the child and give it a proper upbringing, increasing the chance it will become an "Einstein" by establishing a nurturing environment where the child can thrive. My point is that usually there is a baby born (that would otherwise never have existed) at a future date) in place of the one that was aborted . So your point is irrelevant. You are irrelevant, the point is not. Your answer proves you understand nothing about genetics. To have an Einstein, Beethoven, Bach, Tchakovski, Gödel or Escher as a child is not something that happens with every birth in the family or the education you give them. To say so is just plain stupid. Did you even know Einstein had a sister? Tell me, what were Beethoven's younger siblings names and how many did he have? Do you know the names of Bach's four siblings? Ever hear of Kurt Gödel's brother? How about the older brothers of M.C. Escher? Here is a good one, what do you know of the brothers and sisters of Plato? I believe I fully debunked your statement here. It is the individual that is bound for greatness, not the upbringing. So, like you, your point is not only irrelevant, but unfounded. It is typical progressive drivel, and should be completely ignored. I suppose it is the logic used in convincing these young ladies that the decision they make in throwing away a life is o.k., because they will always get a second chance. What a bunch of hogwash. I'm not saying abortion should be rampant, it isn't easy for anyone, but, like you pointed out, the number of abortions are on the decline thanks to birth control education (something else the Republicans want to ban) and the fostering an open environment where we can talk about sex with our kids. Bullshit. Abortions are rampant, and you defend that fact. You are a hypocrite, based on that statement alone. Abortion, along with liberal mindsets about sex, have increased teenage pregnancy over the years, not decreased it. Would you rather have our country run a muck with orphans who often lead confused and troubled lives? I believe it is better if these poor souls never existed (keep in mind they have no knowledge of ever existing) than be brought into the world and cared for by the state. More Bullshit. Just who the hell are you to decide that these poor souls should never have existed. Aborting them has robbed them of a future, and the millions of willing families in this country who want to adopt American children are being cast aside over a method of birth control that is horrendous. 46 million children that could have had a loving home, flushed down a toilet or cast into the trash, just to satisfy the liberal crowd that abortion is protected. That sickens me, just like your drivel you spewed on this subject. I wonder just how often Planned Parenthood informs those little paychecks that come in for an abortion that there are millions of families out there that would love to give their child a loving home, if they would just carry it to term. Perhaps the solution is to pay these women money to do it, just so we can actually get these children born and adopted. I certainly know your solutions are not solutions. |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:09:58 GMT -5
You make it sound like the government is forcing people to have abortions. This is not true, it is the the individual's decision. And they are usually not informed of all the real choices, consequences and alternatives. |
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Post by mrroqout on Sept 24, 2008 18:10:44 GMT -5
Actually.....
Planned Parenthood DOES RECEIVE GOVERNMENT FUNDING ..IE OUR TAX Dollars.
They get money from TITLE X
And MEDICAID...Medicaid MUST pay for abortions for indigent women in the case of rape or incest, or if the mother's life is endangered. Very few abortions fall into that category, and only a few of those are performed at Planned Parenthood affiliated clinics.
Around 1/3 of Planned Parenthood's operating income comes from TAX Dollars.
During its 2005-2006 fiscal year, the nonprofit Planned Parenthood Federation of America performed a record 264,943 abortions, attained a high profit of $55.8 million and received record taxpayer funding of $305.3 million.
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:12:05 GMT -5
If aborting them isn't sentencing them to death, what is it? Are we helping them? You try to humanize the argument but that fact is that they do not yet exist as a person, they have no sense of being. During the first trimester they are a part of the mother's body. It is her decision at that stage, not yours or the government's! Yes, and if that mother were paid to have the child and put it up for adoption, then not only would the child survive, the families who want children would have a way to adopt. And, we would have more then the 50,000 some odd children who need adopting. But hey, we are a disposable society right? Why not dispose of our unborn as well. How sick is that. |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:14:04 GMT -5
Hundreds of millions of tax $$$ are given to Planned Parenthood, founded by a racist, to finance abortions. My money and yours. Wow. You're way off base. Where do you get your information?? Here are the facts (from Planned Parenthood's website): I'll put this one at the top so you don't miss it: Three percent of all Planned Parenthood health services are abortion services.Planned Parenthood affiliates provide sexual and reproductive health care, education, and information to five million women, men, and adolescents worldwide each year. More than three million women and men in the United States annually visit Planned Parenthood affiliate health centers for trusted health care services and information. Seventy-four percent of Planned Parenthood health care clients are over the age of 20. One in four American women has visited a Planned Parenthood health center at least once in her life. Our Work Planned Parenthood health centers focus on prevention: 81 percent of our clients receive services to prevent unintended pregnancy. Planned Parenthood services help prevent more than 642,000 unintended pregnancies each year. Planned Parenthood provides more than 1 million Pap tests and more than 880,000 breast exams each year, critical services in detecting cancer. Planned Parenthood provides more than 3 million tests and treatments for sexually transmitted infections, including HIV. Three percent of all Planned Parenthood health services are abortion services. Planned Parenthood affiliates provide educational programs to 1.2 million young people and adults each year. Planned Parenthood has more than four million activists, supporters, and donors working for women's health and safety and our fundamental reproductive rights. And here is a link to their most recent annual report and IRS form 990: www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/annual-report-4661.htm Again, you are dead wrong with your information. Do your homework next time before spewing your lies. Please note, not a word about adoption as an option. I wonder why. |
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Post by harpman1 on Sept 24, 2008 18:21:20 GMT -5
305 million tax dollars to Planned Parenthood.
Even by their dubious percentages, that's almost 10 million tax $$ to pay for P.P. abortions.
I guess those dollars don't count, though.
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:21:31 GMT -5
The point at which life begins is to a large extent simply opinion, so debating it is somewhat pointless. To me, life starts when there is evidence (as determined by scientific evaluation) of a consciousness or sense of feeling and being. This includes things like feeling pain, movement, and the beginnings of a thought process. This point is reached somewhere well beyond the first trimester of pregnancy. During the first trimester, it is simply a cluster of cells, granted, with a unique genetic makeup with potential to become a human, but a cluster of cells nonetheless. Putting human value on it at this stage is ignorant of reality. I know there are some with extreme views on the pro-choice side and I am just as passionate as you are about disallowing abortions after the first trimester. Life. An interesting thing, it is. Do you think algae feels pain? Do you believe that algae has a sense of feeling or being? Better yet, do you feel that algae has a discernible consciousness? And lastly, do you feel that science is wasting its time by looking for this form of "life" in other places? Science defines algae as a form of life. I believe a fetus meets this same definition. |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:26:43 GMT -5
Then can you please clarify what you meant? Simple. Allow up or down floor votes, or the next President may appoint someone you dislike even more. Democrats should stop playing games with appointments, trying to get a Democrat in office before allowing a vote is unethical and not Democratic at all. You know, my son has outgrown having to have me hold his hand and explain everything, when will you? |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:30:23 GMT -5
Again, please clarify your views then. Simple. Educate the pregnant teens and twenty somethings about the need for children to be put up for adoption. Pay them to have the child and put it up for adoption. It is better for society in the long run. |
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Post by bolverk on Sept 24, 2008 18:32:42 GMT -5
Fair enough, guess I just assumed. A mistake you seem to make more often then I do. Not that I do not presume things from time to time, just ask the Big Dog. The difference is simple though. I listen to what people have to say, after I get a chance to chew it over, I may change my mind. You walk in lock step with the good little progressives though. |
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