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Post by surefire on Nov 7, 2008 9:49:06 GMT -5
At least in the eyes of his followers?
His followers appear to have blind faith in him, despite only a couple years experience as a Senator. I get the feeling he can do no wrong in the eyes of some... if he triples the tax rate, his loyal following will say it is a good thing.
I've seen people shake, vibrate, etc.... when his speeches are broadcast at local venues, almost like they are temporarily possessed. Almost like some of the members in extreme churches do.
Even some people I know on the moderate-right are putting their faith in him to be a savior (of the country).
What happens if he doesn't pan out? Will his followers still worship him?
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Post by ferrous on Nov 7, 2008 11:42:05 GMT -5
Beware of false prophets:
Matthew 24:
(3) As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
(4) Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. (5) For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ, and will deceive many. (6) You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. (7) Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. (8) All these are the beginning of birth pains.
(9) “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. (10) At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, (11) and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.(12) Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, (13) but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (14) And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
(15) “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— (16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. (17) Let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out of the house. (18) Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak. (19) How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! (20) Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. (21) For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. (22) If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. (23) At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. (24) For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. (25) See, I have told you ahead of time.
(26) “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the desert,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. (27) For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
(28) Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 7, 2008 13:06:58 GMT -5
He speaks to people honestly, the way we have always wanted our politicians to address us yet they never have. Obama himself has said that he will make mistakes as President. No one I know believes he will do no wrong. It's a relief from the ignorant sense of infallibility Bush displayed.
It's funny that you put it into a religious context. Actually, I think we will see America finally begin to escape the trappings of religion and usher in a new age of reasonable thought, much like countries in Western Europe have done in recent years.
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Post by subdjoe on Nov 7, 2008 13:23:14 GMT -5
He speaks to people honestly, the way we have always wanted our politicians to address us yet they never have. Obama himself has said that he will make mistakes as President. No one I know believes he will do no wrong. It's a relief from the ignorant sense of infallibility Bush displayed. It's funny that you put it into a religious context. Actually, I think we will see America finally begin to escape the trappings of religion and usher in a new age of reasonable thought, much like countries in Western Europe have done in recent years. I throw the red bullshit flag. He does NOT address us honestly. He flatly refuses to give straight answers to most hard questions. He falls back on "well, we want to put everything on the table." Which isn't an answer, it is a cop out. He uses it to hid that he wants to get rid of coal power, firearms, and nuclear power. He has plans for his own version of the SA, Civilian Security Force I think he calls it. Any reasonable person can see that all his give aways can't be paid for by his plans for confiscatory taxes on the wealthy. And, you aren't anti-religion, you are anti-Christian. You want to rule us with the religion of atheism, or at best humanism. The other religions pushed by the left are the various eastern mystic, shamanist, and animist religions. Those seem to be acceptable, even to be taught by colleges and through park & rec. depts. And,yes, atheism is a religion. It takes as much faith to follow that belief system as to follow a theistic one. Why should that religion be the dominant one. Plus, show where in the Constitution it says that there shall be no public display of religion as you push for. |
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Post by maxsawdust on Nov 7, 2008 14:00:26 GMT -5
He speaks to people honestly, the way we have always wanted our politicians to address us yet they never have. Obama himself has said that he will make mistakes as President. No one I know believes he will do no wrong. It's a relief from the ignorant sense of infallibility Bush displayed. Are you f**k**g sick in the head? He has ALREADY Blackballed news outlets because they asked questions he doesn't "WANT" to answer..VERY "Honest".. EVERY one of his associates is a scumbag either under indictment, formerly indicted or about to be indicted. Yeah he doesn't think he is infallible LOL BWAHAHAHA And he CLEARLY BELIEVES HE IS A "MESSIAH" otherwise a True Christian (which he claims to be ..also funny since Saunterelle would like a godless society..no I am NOT Religious but B. Hussein is..) would IMMEDIATELY ask to NOT be even compared to the "Messiah"...How is that Obamaid?? |
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 7, 2008 14:18:12 GMT -5
First of all, I am not an atheist. I'm agnostic. I subscribe to the religion of I DON'T KNOW. And guess what, YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER. Want to know how I know that you don't know? Because you don't have special powers that let you see into the great beyond and neither do I. If you choose to wall off the logical part of your brain so you can believe in a fairy tale, that is your right. But it shouldn't play any part in the way our government behaves or makes decisions.
I am not just anti-Christian, all religions around the world are equally nutty.
And yes, Obama wants to put all options on the table. He is intelligent, that's why I voted for him. He makes decisions by educating himself on all sides of all options and focuses on the solution with America's best interests in mind. You won't see him "going with his gut" very often. It is truly a breath of fresh air.
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Post by bolverk on Nov 7, 2008 14:22:58 GMT -5
Did you guys hear what Chris Matthews from MSNBC said? He said it was up to journalists to make sure this Presidency was successful. Now, is it not the job of the Press to report? Chris Matthews is an idiot and now Americans know they cannot count on him to be objective.
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Post by bolverk on Nov 7, 2008 14:24:09 GMT -5
saunterelle, you don't even know what agnostic means. You are an atheist, not agnostic. Agnostics believe in God, or did you not know that. Maybe not all agnostics, since it really is a theological belief system that lets you make your own determinations.
One simple thing is that you cannot see gravity, you cannot hold gravity, but we know it exists. You cannot see God, you cannot hold God and you cannot prove God does not exist.
There is more to being Agnostic then you realize. And, being an Agnostic does not mean you are against the belief systems of others. You clearly are with the way you insult them just by opening your mouth.
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Post by saunterelle on Nov 7, 2008 14:26:59 GMT -5
saunterelle, you don't even know what agnostic means. You are an atheist, not agnostic. Agnostics believe in God, or did you not know that. (Greek: α- a-, without + γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge; after Gnosticism) is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims — particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, ghosts, or even ultimate reality — is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism |
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Post by bolverk on Nov 7, 2008 14:36:05 GMT -5
Yes, I know what the definition is. I also know what the practice is. No two Agnostics believe the same. Here is the original thought line: "Agnostic" was introduced by Thomas Henry Huxley in 1869 to describe his philosophy which rejects Gnosticism, by which he meant not simply the early 1st millennium religious group, but all claims to spiritual or mystical knowledge. Gnosticism (Greek: γνώσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to a diverse, syncretistic religious movement consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that humans are divine souls trapped in a material world created by an imperfect god, the demiurge, who is frequently identified with the Abrahamic God. And then you have the various forms of Agnosticism: - Strong agnosticism (also called "hard agnosticism," "closed agnosticism," "strict agnosticism," or "absolute agnosticism")—refers the view that the question of the existence or nonexistence of God or gods and the nature of ultimate reality is unknowable by reason of our natural inability to verify any experience with anything but another subjective experience. A strong agnostic would say, "I don't know whether God exists or not, and neither do you."
- Weak agnosticism (also called soft agnosticism, open agnosticism, empirical agnosticism, temporal agnosticism)—the view that the existence or nonexistence of any deity is currently unknown but is not necessarily unknowable, therefore one will withhold judgment until/if any evidence is available. A weak agnostic would say, "I don't know whether any deity exists or not, but maybe one day when there is more evidence we can find something out."
- Apathetic agnosticism (also called Pragmatic agnosticism)—the view that there is no proof of either the existence or nonexistence of any deity, but since any deity that may exist appears unconcerned for the universe or the welfare of its inhabitants, the question is largely academic anyway.[citation needed]
- Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism, spiritual agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence. (See Knowledge vs. Beliefs)
- Agnostic atheism—the view of those who do not know of the existence or nonexistence of a deity, and do not believe in any.[7]
- Ignosticism—the view that a coherent definition of God must be put forward before the question of the existence of God can be meaningfully discussed. If the chosen definition isn't coherent, the ignostic holds the noncognitivist view that the existence of God is meaningless or empirically untestable. A.J. Ayer, Theodore Drange, and other philosophers see both atheism and agnosticism as incompatible with ignosticism on the grounds that atheism and agnosticism accept "God exists" as a meaningful proposition which can be argued for or against.
Again, you have bastardized what agnostics believe. |
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Post by The Big Dog on Nov 7, 2008 14:37:45 GMT -5
First of all, I am not an atheist. I'm agnostic. I subscribe to the religion of I DON'T KNOW. And guess what, YOU DON'T KNOW EITHER. I subscribe to the same belief. But I also subscribe to the belief, which you clearly do not from the tone and temper of your posts on Prop 8 and here, that those who do have a religious faith in their lives have the right to believe how they choose!!! Just like you and I do. You have no right to dictate to them... yet that is how your posts come off. Religion = bad, religion = fear, seems to be what you peddle, and you seem to expect the folks who find comfort in faith to throw that over because you have a problem with it. Petty, insulting vindictiveness of that which you choose not to believe doesn't make you right. It makes you a petty, insulting, vindictive person. Last time I looked, none of those traits are considered admirable in most areas of society outside the Daily Kos, Democrat Underground and the HuffPo. |
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Post by bolverk on Nov 7, 2008 14:38:33 GMT -5
This one is you saunterelle: Agnostic atheist.
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