Democrat Energy Policy

[harpman1]

I see you support spending my money to achieve your goals.

Thanks.

[saunterelle]

I support us all pitching in for our unified goal of making America a better, safer place.

[bolverk]

Jul 21, 2008 17:00:18 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

That's exactly why we need to put more money toward R&D for alternative fuels. We can all agree that it is in America's best interest to break our dependence on oil so what's wrong with everyone pitching in (taxes)? We all benefit.

The trouble with your post is this. The only way you will consider it pitching in is if we do it your way. Well, that is the wrong way for sure. You do not put the horse out to pasture and wait when they start developing a tractor to plow the field, you put the horse out to pasture after you can afford and have purchased a new tractor. Why can't people like you see that?

[bolverk]

Jul 21, 2008 17:52:41 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

I support us all pitching in for our unified goal of making America a better, safer place.

This is by far a smite worthy post. I should smite you for it, because it is a communistic statement at best. It is also Bovine Scat. But, I will refrain because subdjoe came to your aide, and that is the only reason.

Changing the fuel we burn, or the way we power our automobiles will not make America any better or safer. Can you spell hyperbole? I know you can.

Modified because: the board logs you off, from time to time, even when you have activity in postings.

[harpman1]

I'm pleased you have the wisdom to require me to pitch in to do what you want.

By what mechanism would you enforce my pitching in?

As I have stated, this is a world governed by the aggressive use of force.

What force will you apply to me & those like me who disagree?

Confiscation?

Jail?

Death?

[subdjoe]

Jul 21, 2008 17:52:41 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

I support us all pitching in for our unified goal of making America a better, safer place.

Ah, then you agree that we need to do away with 99% of the restrictive gun laws, make English the official language, make the schools go back to teaching the basics, and go back to enforcing our immigration laws. Just for a start.

[subdjoe]

Bolverk wrote: "This is by far a smite worthy post. I should smite you for it, because it is a communistic statement at best. It is also Bovine Scat. But, I will refrain because subdjoe came to your aide, and that is the only reason."

I had put up my post about smite/exalt because it seemed to me that you were using it like a rapper uses f**k. I could pretty much count on your every post in response to saunterelle having a phrase similiar to "I smite you" in it. It was getting tiresome. And trite.

Not that I don't agree with your sentiments, mind. He does parrot the one worlder disciples of the almighty AlGore very well.

[saunterelle]

"go back to enforcing our immigration laws. Just for a start."

I agree with this one. The others you mentioned are debatable.

There was an examination of the offshore drilling situation in today Chronicle. Find it here: www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/07/22/MN6M11SN60.DTL

It seems like there's a lot of oil there but the most telling statement, for me, was this one: "That means any new oil wouldn't arrive on the market until midway through the next decade, at the earliest. The process is slow enough that the Energy Information Administration, the statistics branch of the U.S. Department of Energy, estimated last year that opening the coasts to offshore drilling would have no significant impact on oil prices before 2030."

I feel that our goal should be to ween ourselves off oil by 2030.

[harpman1]

The significant impact on oil prices does not come from having all the new wells pumping furiously.

It comes from the sure & certain knowledge abroad that the U.S. will be drilling everywhere there could possibly be oil.

As an example, if I have fields I won't plant, & you sell me your crops, I am a captive customer.

When you see me plowing all of my acreage, your monopoly is ending soon. You therefore reduce prices, as you can see what is coming.

That is how commodity markets work in the real world.

The argument re: prices not coming down 'till our gas is in our tanks is horse-pucky & you should know that. And you do.

Last week Pres. Bush lifted the Exec. Ban on offshore drilling and, before one drop hit the market, oil prices dropped $25/barrel.

Wean all you want, but until then we must drill or at least threaten to drill every acre in sight.

That is what adults would do.

[The Big Dog]

Jul 22, 2008 10:50:27 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

I feel that our goal should be to ween ourselves off oil by 2030.

While I do not disagree with your idea of a goal, what methodology(s) do you propose to do so? That, most likely, is where the real debate is.

While harpman, I think, overstates the actual price drop on the spot market, the effect was indeed quite pronounced when the president vacated the EO on off shore exploration. Once exploration moves ahead, prices will drop more. As exploration leads to proven reserves, the prices will drop more. That is, as harpman correctly noted, how commodity markets work. They aren't betting on next week, they are betting years down the road.

If Madame Speaker would get off her high, mighty, green colored horse and the Congress would act on both on shore and off shore exploration, you would likely see the spot prices fall precipitously.

Couple that with a stronger monetary policy from the next Administration, and the tens of thousands of new high wage jobs and hundreds of thousands of servicec sector jobs to support the effort, the real and imagined woes of our economy right now would become a thing of the past for a good long time.

[jgaffney]

Saunterelle quotes....

That means any new oil wouldn't arrive on the market until midway through the next decade, at the earliest. The process is slow enough that the Energy Information Administration, the statistics branch of the U.S. Department of Energy, estimated last year that opening the coasts to offshore drilling would have no significant impact on oil prices before 2030.

Here's an analogy:

You call the fire department and report that your house is on fire. The fire department dispatcher says, "Your house is too far away. By the time we got there, it would be fully engulfed. Sorry, we're not coming. Learn to live in a tent."

We had an oil spill in 1969 and, ever since then, it's been used as the boogey man whenever offshore oil is brought up. Do you think the technology has improved in the last 40 years? Do you remember reading about any spills after Katrina washed through the Gulf?

Saunterelle, if you truely feel that we should wean ourselves off of petroleum (I'm assuming you only mean transportation), why don't you take the first step and buy that CNG Honda I've been bugging you about?

[subdjoe]

Well, the tesla is being sold in the area. Test drives by appointment only and you need to put up a $5000 deposit. Yeah, i can do that. Right