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Post by subdjoe on Jun 6, 2008 11:42:15 GMT -5
Wow. Well, I respect and admire your family's service to our country. However, I strongly disagree with your views on imperialism. Care to do a detailed account of just what countries we have invaded and brought under our control with the idea of staying, enslaving, and expoliting? Heck, I would settle for one (1) country in the last 100 years. I notice that the one world goverment socialists love to talk about 'american imperialism' but never seem to be able to back up the slander with any facts. |
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 6, 2008 12:26:28 GMT -5
I was referring to harpman's views on imperialism. He admitted the true reason we went to Iraq, which proved my point that Bush's war was sold on a lie.
I certainly do have respect for our military and you have no right to call me a liar. I have strongly disagreed with this war from the beginning, and pretty much everyone has finally come around to see that it was a mistake, except you people on this board. Many of you are bitter and defensive, I imagine you cling to your guns, you cling to religion (just like Obama said) and you can't see the forest for the trees.
Our military has been sent to do many wonderful and worthwhile tasks in the world. Get it straight that when I criticize this failed war in Iraq I am not criticizing the military as they were given an unwinable situation. I'm criticizing the administration, many of whom dodged the wars of their youth and it shows.
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Post by mrroqout on Jun 6, 2008 12:44:04 GMT -5
Wow. Well, I respect and admire your family's service to our country. However, I strongly disagree with your views on imperialism. Care to do a detailed account of just what countries we have invaded and brought under our control with the idea of staying, enslaving, and expoliting? Heck, I would settle for one (1) country in the last 100 years. I notice that the one world goverment socialists love to talk about 'american imperialism' but never seem to be able to back up the slander with any facts. Much like they have no concept of the true definition of their favorite word "NeoCon". |
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Post by bolverk on Jun 6, 2008 12:50:19 GMT -5
I certainly do have respect for our military and you have no right to call me a liar. Yes I do. I have as much right to call you a liar and be vitriolic in my response to you as your party has done to the President for eight years, with the help of constituents like yourself. What's the matter, you don't have the backbone to take it? Your idea that pulling out of Iraq is a good thing proves your lack of respect for the military. You would have all their work be destroyed, all that they fought for swept under a rug, to be forgotten. You would have the people they freed returned to totalitarian state, just to bring home warriors who believe in their goal of helping Iraqis to freedom. That is a deep lack of respect. |
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Post by bolverk on Jun 6, 2008 12:56:25 GMT -5
Yeah, they say neocon like an insult. However, they forget that neocons were once democrats. However, those Democrats could not abide the destruction of individual liberties and rights, as advanced by the neo-socialists in the democratic party, who took over. When the Democratic party started advancing group rights over individual rights and liberties, they caused a huge rift. Too bad their constituents have been made up of weak minded individuals who either just follow party dogma, come from third world countries and were undereducated and very poor, or are just plain to dumb to understand what real liberties and freedoms are.
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 6, 2008 13:17:21 GMT -5
You're a hoot! So you're really going to sit here and argue that we shouldn't pull out of Iraq because of the troops morale? Many of the troops think this war is a horrible idea also! They're doing it because they've been given a job to do. Why do you think troop suicides are at an all-time high? See for yourself: www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/01/military.suicides/index.html Nearly 6 soldiers per day are attempting suicide! We need to get them the hell out of there and make sure they have resources for mental help! YOU are the one who is incredibly disrespectful of our troops by believing we can "win" in Iraq when our resources and troops are stretched so thin. The "surge" has violence levels down to what they were in June 2006. Well, in June 2006 we were in a shitty situation, and we're still in a shitty situation! Don't act like we're making a ton of progress and victory is right around the corner because it's not. Ask any general, or retired general, for the real scoop. |
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Post by bolverk on Jun 6, 2008 13:39:22 GMT -5
Nice try, but the article says troop suicides are at a five year high, not all time high.
In fact, further investigation shows that suicide rates among returning veterans is a new area of study. No such study was done for Vietnam, Korea, World War II or World War I. In fact, I am not even sure if it was done for the first Gulf War. Which makes your point, pointless.
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Post by bolverk on Jun 6, 2008 13:47:54 GMT -5
Plus, you are discounting the opinions of every returning veteran I have spoken with. As well as the opinions of all the new warriors who are joining the military. I have several friends with kids in Iraq. And so far none of them are of your stated troop opinions, and some have requested a return to Iraq.
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Post by harpman1 on Jun 6, 2008 14:07:42 GMT -5
Remember.
Neocon = Jew.
The true heirs to National Socialism- Americas left.
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 6, 2008 14:21:57 GMT -5
"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Every day, five U.S. soldiers try to kill themselves. Before the Iraq war began, that figure was less than one suicide attempt a day.
The dramatic increase is revealed in new U.S. Army figures, which show 2,100 soldiers tried to commit suicide in 2007."
I guess I should have said "suicides are at an all time high since the war began." Now, you still haven't addressed the issue here, you said my point was "pointless." Really? You are going to dismiss this astonishing figure and argue that the mental stability of our troops means nothing?
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Post by bolverk on Jun 6, 2008 14:30:13 GMT -5
No, your point that suicides are at an all time high, and indicitive of their dissatisfaction with this war is pointless. You have nothing to base your figures on, except for peace time suicide rates. War is very, very stressful, and we are just now beginning to understand the impact it has on the mental stability of some soldiers. But, to say it is indicitive of how they feel about this war is way off base. It is a reflection of the burden most men suffer when faced with a situation where they have to take the life of another human being.
You, on the other hand, are attempting to marginalize that natural reaction to taking a human life, and turn it into a political statement about how the troops feel about this war. Nothing could be further from reality then such a stretch as that. The dramatic increase is not for your political hay, especially when you use it in a way that is not reflective of reality.
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Post by saunterelle on Jun 6, 2008 14:38:10 GMT -5
It is totally based in sober reality and should be a wake up call for many who support this war.
The question is: Is it really worth all the deaths, bloodshed, and mental suffering of our American soldiers for the small, unlikely chance that one day (maybe 100 years from now according to John McCain) Iraq might be a democracy? If the answer is NO (as mine is) then we need to pull our troops out NOW.
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