Enough

[Mink]

I am not saying there hasn't been veritable fact but it has been produced by both sides, as are opinions. Big Dog has offered so much to this forum for years. He responds so congenial when one shows appreciation for his input, but when he feels his facts has been challenged, I think it hurts his ego worse.

My goodness gracious, the conservatives have mostly outnumbered liberals here and most of the libs have been driven off over the years. JMO is neither conservative or liberal and has shown nothing but respect for everyone here. By the same token, she should not have to take any crap from anyone. As much as you guys claim to be so correct with your "facts", you don't realize how condescending you can be, yet when someone stands up for themselves, you claim victim (sometimes, like here), which is what Big Dog has done. Before he left so dramatically, he emotionally felt like he had to spite us with disrespectful behavior targetting JMO and Liberals indirectly.

That shows lack of substance.

[JustMyOpinion]

After reading some of the posts here I had to stop and pause before responding. I can't believe how emotional members are getting over DEBATING each other, isn;t that why we are all here? If I remember correctly I was encouraged more than once to not be "shy" or to stand up and speak my mind, yet, when I defend myself against a disrespectful post the sh-t hits the fan. So, what does that mean exactly? I can only respond if it suits the agenda of those that are in a majority of similar thought? Yeah, when hell freezes over.

I will not apologize for BD getting mad, and leaving the rest of you. He chose his anger over you and frankly it wasn't justified. I understand his frustration, and I've said before he's an amazing debater I agree. I have expressed to him on many occasions how I admire his writing ability and ability to find sources, but that does not override respect.

If I had the time, and I do not, I would love to do extensive research and have as many resources at my finger tips as many of you who haunt other boards. I only post here, and as it is I have a hard time keeping up, so when I do post I make every effort to research and make the best logical opinion based on my findings and sometimes personal experience, not just emotion, and to say otherwise is incorrect and insulting.

Having different opinions and values is what this country is based on, and for that we all need to be grateful instead of being angry at the guy next to us. This board would be boring if everyone thought exactly the same, and ironically it may wind up that way if we don't show refrain and respect. And, in fact, isn't that why we all left the PD forum?

[JustMyOpinion]

Oct 30, 2008 8:50:23 GMT -5 @surefire said:

I respect and admire all of the lefties on this board, including JMO, Mink, and saunterelle. While we have our disagreements on policy, I think they'll all good people.

Nice post! I don't consider myself a "leftie" but I really appreciate the thought.

[bolverk]

Facts, they are interesting. Like the fact that Congress is responsible for the economy, yet Democrats blamed Bush on the economy before the economy went bad. The Democrats have done a great job of creating what appears to be a political business cycle, but it got out of control. Yet, in spite of the fact, not innuendo or emotion, that the Constitution specifically spells out that it is Congress that is responsible for both banking and raising money, most of you progressives still blame Bush.

Another point, which is also a verifiable fact, is that it was the Democrats, against the recommendations of then President Clinton, who cut the intelligence budget to the point that we had no active intelligence from our own operatives to warn us about 9/11. Yet, people still suggest that Bush knew based on a report from the Philippines that Al Qaeda was planning on hijacking some airplanes and flying them into buildings. There were no specifics on the report, but Bush gets blamed for 9/11 anyway. To the point where people say he wanted or planed it to happen.

I have not patience or tolerance for those type of tactics or the really stupid people who believe any of the political BS. When people on this board say things like that, they are trying to make it seem Bush is a dictator who makes decisions in a vacuum, all along ignoring the fact that Congress voted at more then 80% to back his decision to go into Iraq. Trying to say that Bush lied is a bunch of crap and a political ploy created by leftists who want to shirk the responsibility of their decisions or their parties decisions. Why should I respect any individual who parrots this non-sense?

Better yet, why should I respect a single Democrat who in the last four years minimum has done nothing but push their responsibility off onto the office of the President, to make it seem their bad choices are his responsibility. The House of Representatives is the peoples house, if Congress fails to represent the people as they are constitutionally mandated, why should I blame the President? And, better yet, why should I respect anyone who is stupid enough to blame the President for the failures of our Congress?

The day progressives on this board visits as much vitriol, aspersion, lies, implications, imputations, insinuations, innuendo and just plain hate on Woolsey, Pelosi, Reid, Thompson, Feinstein and Boxer as they falsely have on Bush over his term, then I may respect you. These people are the ones who are responsible for the fiscal crisis. These people are the ones who are Constitutionally responsible for the Bank failures. These people are the ones who are responsible for the Wall Street melt down. These people are the ones who are responsible for no Comprehensive Energy Policy.

Yet, I hear progressives defend these criminals at every turn. They have not failed us for just four or eight years, they have failed us for more then 16 years. Yet what is it we hear? It's Bush's fault. I have heard better arguments from four year old children. You progressives want to earn my respect? Then show me by getting the problem politicians I just pointed out removed from office or at least put under the microscope like you did Bush. After all, they are more responsible for the current problems then you let on.

And, by the way, I am still considering following TBD. Why waste my finger tips pointing out the obvious to single minded individuals.

[surefire]

Oct 31, 2008 8:35:11 GMT -5 JustMyOpinion said:

Oct 30, 2008 8:50:23 GMT -5 @surefire said:

I respect and admire all of the lefties on this board, including JMO, Mink, and saunterelle. While we have our disagreements on policy, I think they'll all good people.

Nice post! I don't consider myself a "leftie" but I really appreciate the thought.

You seem to be more of a centralist, leaning a little to the left.

Regardless, you always conduct yourself with dignity and class.

[Mink]

Quoted by bloverk:

And, by the way, I am still considering following TBD. Why waste my finger tips pointing out the obvious to single minded individuals.

This is the second time you have said this bloverk (following Big Dog) and I'm not sure why. Although you seem to think people with different opinions than yours are ignorant or idiots, you have to admit, by name calling, won't change their minds.

Nobody wanted to see Big Dog storm off the way he did, nor do we want to lose you either, but you can't expect others with opposing opinions to communicate the way you would prefer or consider ideal.

Our little forum was worth keeping (thank you TNG) and as JMO reminded us, we left the PD forums for a reason. Why should we resort to the same behavior regardless of our stance/s?

[bolverk]

Nothing I stated was opinion baby. All facts.

It is not an opinion that Congress is responsible for the Economy, not the President. So why are all the leftists blaming Bush, including you, even though you have seen exactly what it says in the Constitution. Do you lack the intelligence to understand what our forefather meant? So, to say I am stating opinion is either ignorance of our constitution, stupidity or intentional rhetoric. Which is it?

Stating that Democrats cut the intelligence budget by one billion dollars is a verifiable fact. And it was done against the recommendations of Clinton. That this caused us to rely on outside intelligence from agencies not associated with our government is a verifiable fact. That the intelligence failure led to 9/11 is a verifiable fact, unless you are a conspiracy nut job. It is not opinion. That the Philippine government themselves have said that the information they gave was a generalization and had no specifics seems to make no difference to you, even though it to is verifiable fact, you still blame Bush for the security failures of a previous administration. Why is that, are you totally unhinged from reality?

Stating that more then 80% of congress, which only had a small Republican majority of around 52% or 53% in the House, seems to be lost on you also. A vote like that is called bipartisan, yet you blame only Bush for being in Iraq. Do you realize the size of the chasm you must cross to leap to that conclusion? And once you do leap to that conclusion, you have called into question the intelligence of the Democrats who voted to go. For some reason you are caught up in the mistaken belief that this country is run by one person.

And kindly tell me what important legislation was voted on in Congress over the last two years? Did we address an Energy Policy with a vote? Before it began to get worse, did we address the housing crisis with a vote? Did we address the problems in Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac? No. No. And No. How about Wall Street? Was that addressed in the proper fashion by our Democrats in office?

So tell me, where in there is my opinion? Please point it out. Please refute just one. Please follow up with a substantive response, rather then a curt or trite comment that means nothing. I dare you.

[Mink]

Please, save your facts for another thread on Congress, oh Pompous One ;D

[bolverk]

Actually, pompous is exactly what you have been doing. You refute facts with feelings and then call other pompous.

But, when asked to refute any facts the person who asks always gets the same reply from you. Nothing. Because you know you cannot refute those facts, so out comes the curt little response of a six year old child.

YOU HAVE BEEN PWNED.

[Mink]

Not only are you pompous and arrogant, you can't admit that you are off topic too! Smiting me won't change that fact!

[bolverk]

Since the topic is "Enough" then explain how I am off topic. Your trite little comments and stupid little ;D emoticons you include do not endear you with anyone, in fact they helped to irritate a member off of this board who took the time to review his facts. So STFU. I don't really care what you have to say about my posts and I am going to smite you until the cows come home.

[bolverk]

In fact, I am way on topic, since the topic is the tolerant left here. I am openly challenging you to refute facts. FACTS. You can't, or you would have already.