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Post by surefire on Nov 2, 2008 20:23:22 GMT -5
Because the thread is about Chicago, it makes sense to move the liquor away from the troubled area/s. At least make them sparce and possibly add more venues like Boys & Girls Clubs. Another issue where we agree to disagree. I don't blame booze for poor behavior. I blame the people. Take responsibility for your actions, don't blame it on others or objects (such as alcohol). Responsibility appears to be a word that is foreign to most people these days. Where I do agree with you is youth programs, I think they do have merit. |
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Post by Mink on Nov 2, 2008 20:24:03 GMT -5
Beleive me, they will find the real estate. There is too much desire and money in it. Yeah... perhaps in the middle of rural Kansas, or Alaska. How many metro DMAs have lots of space without schools within 5 miles? I cannot name many. Well, Alaska is a given. They have guns galore up there, but it is not heavily populated either. Since Chicago is heavily populated, they would have to move the gun shops farther out on the skirts of the city. Would that matter, as long as they have their gun shops? |
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Post by Mink on Nov 2, 2008 20:27:48 GMT -5
Because the thread is about Chicago, it makes sense to move the liquor away from the troubled area/s. At least make them sparce and possibly add more venues like Boys & Girls Clubs. Another issue where we agree to disagree. I don't blame booze for poor behavior. I blame the people. Take responsibility for your actions, don't blame it on others or objects (such as alcohol). Responsibility appears to be a word that is foreign to most people these days. Where I do agree with you is youth programs, I think they do have merit. If you agree with the youth programs, then keeping liquor stores sparce, is responsible, no? Not every patron of a liquor store is responsible, even if the owner is. Most responsible drinkers will not be buying at a corner liquor store in the ghettos. |
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Post by surefire on Nov 2, 2008 20:30:41 GMT -5
Yeah... perhaps in the middle of rural Kansas, or Alaska. How many metro DMAs have lots of space without schools within 5 miles? I cannot name many. Well, Alaska is a given. They have guns galore up there, but it is not heavily populated either. Since Chicago is heavily populated, they would have to move the gun shops farther out on the skirts of the city. Would that matter, as long as they have their gun shops? The Chicago DMA / metro area is HUGE (I suspect even the suburb metro areas have schools in 5 mile radiuses). Most parts of the Bay Area that I've lived in have schools no greater than 1-2 miles apart. Although I don't know specifically how bad their traffic is, this could mean 2-3 hour drive to the nearest gun store. Not a pretty site for the environment. I hope they don't end up taking Ford Excursions when they need more ammo. |
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Post by surefire on Nov 2, 2008 20:31:54 GMT -5
Another issue where we agree to disagree. I don't blame booze for poor behavior. I blame the people. Take responsibility for your actions, don't blame it on others or objects (such as alcohol). Responsibility appears to be a word that is foreign to most people these days. Where I do agree with you is youth programs, I think they do have merit. If you agree with the youth programs, then keeping liquor stores sparce, is responsible, no? Not every patron of a liquor store is responsible, even if the owner is. Most responsible drinkers will not be buying at a corner liquor store in the ghettos. So we punish the responsible ones for the crimes of the irresponsible. Sounds like a GREAT plan to me! |
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Post by Mink on Nov 2, 2008 20:32:19 GMT -5
Well, Alaska is a given. They have guns galore up there, but it is not heavily populated either. Since Chicago is heavily populated, they would have to move the gun shops farther out on the skirts of the city. Would that matter, as long as they have their gun shops? The Chicago DMA / metro area is HUGE (I suspect even the suburb metro areas have schools in 5 mile radiuses). Most parts of the Bay Area that I've lived in have schools no greater than 1-2 miles apart. Although I don't know specifically how bad their traffic is, this could mean 2-3 hour drive to the nearest gun store. Not a pretty site for the environment. But worth the safety. |
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Post by surefire on Nov 2, 2008 20:36:01 GMT -5
The Chicago DMA / metro area is HUGE (I suspect even the suburb metro areas have schools in 5 mile radiuses). Most parts of the Bay Area that I've lived in have schools no greater than 1-2 miles apart. Although I don't know specifically how bad their traffic is, this could mean 2-3 hour drive to the nearest gun store. Not a pretty site for the environment. But worth the safety. How exactly does this improve safety? If kids cannot buy guns legally, how does moving the store to timbuck2 improve safety. Any moron can buy an illegal (stolen) gun in the Chicago ghetto for $5 (saturday night special) to $50 (a higher quality gun). Why would said child pay $500-1500 for a LEGAL gun, when they cannot in theory even buy one legally (most areas you need to be 21 to buy a handgun)? |
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Post by Mink on Nov 2, 2008 20:47:03 GMT -5
How exactly does this improve safety? If kids cannot buy guns legally, how does moving the store to timbuck2 improve safety. Any moron can buy an illegal (stolen) gun in the Chicago ghetto for $5 (saturday night special) to $50 (a higher quality gun). Why would said child pay $500-1500 for a LEGAL gun, when they cannot in theory even buy one legally (most areas you need to be 21 to buy a handgun)? Think about it again. If the gun store is in the ghetto, the chances are it will be vandalized as opposed to locating itself on the outskirts, where the chances of being left alone are greater. The avid gun enthusiast won't mind the ride to a safer area. |
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Post by surefire on Nov 2, 2008 20:55:57 GMT -5
How exactly does this improve safety? If kids cannot buy guns legally, how does moving the store to timbuck2 improve safety. Any moron can buy an illegal (stolen) gun in the Chicago ghetto for $5 (saturday night special) to $50 (a higher quality gun). Why would said child pay $500-1500 for a LEGAL gun, when they cannot in theory even buy one legally (most areas you need to be 21 to buy a handgun)? Think about it again. If the gun store is in the ghetto, the chances are it will be vandalized as opposed to locating itself on the outskirts, where the chances of being left alone are greater. The avid gun enthusiast won't mind the ride to a safer area. What about the good poor folks in the ghetto that cannot afford to drive that far to stock up on bullets? A gunstore owner with a brain locks the guns up in safes when he leaves, so the chances of guns being stolen during closing hours are statisctically very low. The bigger danger, which I will admit, and you didn't mention yet, are walk in "home invasion" style robberies in which the perps steel the guns by force. Having said this, do we punish the low income ghetto people (most of whom are good people) out of fear that the small amount of bad folks will steal guns? Where will it end? Won't the low lifes just drive the extra miles to rob the suburbs? Gang members are not usually hurting for money-- the drug trade is profitable. |
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Post by jgaffney on Nov 2, 2008 23:50:15 GMT -5
Saunterelle and I had an interesting exchange of opinions on the subject of gun store exclusion zones in another thread. I said that, if you took the arguments of the pro-gun and pro-choice movements and exchanged the subjects, they would sound exactly alike. Saunterelle took the bait and posted that there shouldn't be a problem if one has to drive a bit farther to get to a gun store - there are too many gun strores as it is. I took his argument and turned it right around on him, saying that there shouldn't be a problem if one has to drive a bit farther to get to an abortion clinic - there are too many abortion clinics as it is. Saunterelle didn't get the irony of the argument. So, I smote him.
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Post by Mink on Nov 3, 2008 0:01:38 GMT -5
If a woman or a girl wants or needs an abortion, she will do what she has to. If the gun enthusiast want or needs the gun, he/she will go where ever the gun shop is. Neither belongs close to school.
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Post by jgaffney on Nov 3, 2008 0:12:14 GMT -5
Mink, no one here disputes the "close to school" line. Your boy, however, proposed a five-mile exclusion zone for gun stores. I would reply that a five-mile exclusion zone for abortion clinics would also be justified. I don't have the technology to produce a map of Sonoma County showing the overlapping five-mile exclusion zones, but here's one for Denver. The white area is the exclusion zone. Here's one for Southwest Pennsylvania. Again, the white area is the exclusion zone. And, here's one for the Seattle area. In this one, the green area is the exclusion zone. If you look at any one of these maps, you'll see that it's a big leap from "close to school" to the five-mile exclusion zone proposed by Obama. Try to imagine the outcry from the Left if abortion clinics were given the same restrictions. |
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