Obama: Fear and the Security Force

[surefire]

Nov 21, 2008 20:51:01 GMT -5 The New Guy said:

overrun with criminals? no. but criminals are fairly confident taht they can commit violent crimes without being stopped in the process by a pistol packing citizen. they feel relatively safe as long as the coppers don't happen to be around.

Especially in the nanny states that don't believe that law abiding citizens should be issued CCWs.

[subdjoe]

The Big Dog wrote: "To a great degree... yes, yes I do. I base that not only on research but personal experience.
There are, by most reckonings, something close to 50,000 gang members in the greater Los Angeles area alone. They perpetrate the overwhelming majority of homicides on the streets of LA.
In 1997, there were 815 thousand gang members active in the US, and that number has been growing every year since then."

I can't fully agree with you, Big Dog. Yes, it is a large problem, but I would hesitate to say that the country is "over run." Lets say that the number of gang members has increased by 50%, that still comes to less than half a percent of the population (roughly). I agree in certain metro areas, mostly those that discourage honest citizens from exercising their constitutional rights, it is worse.

I think the root of the problem is that for decades We the People have been taught to be good little victims, or to not get involved, and other such balderdash. Oh, yes, we are encouraged to set up Neighborhood Watch and other such programs to make us feel better, but those don't do much besides create an illusion of Doing Something.

And of course the capons ignore the problem except for throwing window dressing at it. Look at the denial of the chief LEOs in Sonoma Co. Yep, according to them, no gang problems in the county.

[The Big Dog]

So then to Saunterelle's, who then is committing gun crime? Not to be argumentative, but even in the 'burbs the majority of crimes involving firearms are being done by either bangers or wannabe's. There are likely something on the order of 2 million or so across the nation now that are affiliated in some way or another with a gang. There are about a half million cops of all stripe and manner. The bangers are becoming ever more organized, they are infiltrating their women into government jobs, there are more than a few in our armed forces getting much better training that you or I can afford.

And they will continue to swell their numbers.

There is still, of course, the unaffiliated talent such as the career armed robbery guys, the morons who act out in anger and a-holes like the Forestville slackers who were out shooting up cars the other night, apparently for sport.

Having said that, I agree with you that apathy (particularly here in California) engendered in no small part by the nanny state, fear of retribution and fear of simply standing up on one's hind legs and doing something definitely play into the equation.

While it may be in and of itself fallacious to respond to Saunterelle's hyperbole with yet more hyperbole, that would be the "overrun" part, but the fact still remains that it isn't people like you, I, Gaffney or TNG that are out perpetratin'..... is it?

[subdjoe]

I think we pretty much agree, Big Dog. The 99% of gun owners woh are honest, upright citizens are no danger to society, and are a net benefit as has been shown it the shall issue states.

I guess I get my way of thinking from the Old West. Pretty darned peaceful overall. And, when thugs did try to take over, the peaceful, honest citizens did something about it and then returned to being peaceful honest citizens.

If more people would get over their "fear of retribution and fear of simply standing up on one's hind legs and doing something " the crime rate would drop drasticly. The thugs don't want outside attention, they don't want confrontation. They want unarmed, compliant, soft targets. If even 10% of our population was to stand up and say ENOUGH! and be willing to do something besides go to council meetings with dithering capons, I think the problem would pretty much go away. Of course, the progressives like saunterelle would be screaming about the vigilates.


Oh, and since I mentioned him, Saunterelle, how are you coming with the PROOF of your statement that getting rid of all semi autos would eliminate drive by shooting, and save lots of lives? I expect, since you are taking so much time to answer, that you will have LOTS of verifiable PROOF to back it up. I can't wait to read it all.

[surefire]

Nov 22, 2008 8:55:47 GMT -5 subdjoe said:

I think we pretty much agree, Big Dog. The 99% of gun owners woh are honest, upright citizens are no danger to society, and are a net benefit as has been shown it the shall issue states.

I guess I get my way of thinking from the Old West. Pretty darned peaceful overall. And, when thugs did try to take over, the peaceful, honest citizens did something about it and then returned to being peaceful honest citizens.

If more people would get over their "fear of retribution and fear of simply standing up on one's hind legs and doing something " the crime rate would drop drasticly. The thugs don't want outside attention, they don't want confrontation. They want unarmed, compliant, soft targets. If even 10% of our population was to stand up and say ENOUGH! and be willing to do something besides go to council meetings with dithering capons, I think the problem would pretty much go away. Of course, the progressives like saunterelle would be screaming about the vigilates.

Absolutely agree.

As long as citizens meekly take it up the rear without putting up resistence, the criminals will have their way. We need to stand up and say enough for sure.

[The Big Dog]

It occurred to me a week or so ago while trying to put together an essay for another board I post at that when Kevin Costner made "Open Range" the climactic sequence of the film where the townspeople stand up behind forces of evil, might not have been so much a look to the past as it was a vision of the future?

Scary... but is that what it's going to take to root out and crush the especially hard core gangsters who would prey on our souls and would likely just as soon kill us as break wind if we resist?

[subdjoe]

Could be Big Dog. But it won't be stand up fights like that. Or I don't think it will. It will be small public safety committees taking the risks and slowly and quietly eliminating the thugs a few at at time. Dealers will start being found killed in their cars, safe houses will be found and firebombed. Once they get the idea that they are not safe and that there are honest citizens that won't be cowed, they will scuttle back into the woodwork. They are only brave when they know they can win by intimidation. At some point enough people are going to get tired of the capons doing nothing but talk and restrict honest citizens that they will take matters into their own hands.

And of course our elected officials will be outraged that citizens are doing their civic duty to keep themselves and their communities safe and bray that the "vigilante justice" must stop and the people must not take the law into their own hands, never realizing that if they had actually done their jobs rather than insuring that the thugs have free rein things would not have gotten to that point.

[The Big Dog]

You're likely more right than any of us might believe Joe. The concept was what struck me.

But then again, we'll soon have Barack's National Civilian Security Force to protect us all, so all the easily intimidated will be able to stay in their own good holes cowering in fear.

[subdjoe]

Nov 22, 2008 18:50:16 GMT -5 The Big Dog said:

You're likely more right than any of us might believe Joe. The concept was what struck me.

But then again, we'll soon have Barack's National Civilian Security Force to protect us all, so all the easily intimidated will be able to stay in their own good holes cowering in fear.

I'm just looking at history. Police as we know them now, basically municpal paramilitary forces, are a fairly recent invention. It wasn't all that long ago then the cop on the beat was unarmed except maybe for a billy, and would call on the armed citizens on the street to aid in the apprehension of thugs. And before that it was citizens banding together and handing out justice.

and,

Oh, silly me! I forgot about how we have a Brave New World Order now, and The Obama will make everything better, stamp out all injustice, and redistribute all the wealth so everyone has plenty of free bubble up and rainbow stew.

[The Big Dog]

The best thing about good parody and sharp satire is that they are reflective of the truth.

This makes the case brilliantly.