FDR, New Deal.

[heckheckle]

;D Franklin Delano Roosevelt knew how to get the USA
moving along out of the Great Depression. He saw to it that there was money for Infrastructure that created jobs and kept the money in circulation, but not in the hands of the rich. There was much work in building Bridges, Underground sewer lines and water lines. Highways, and teaching men "Trades" that would last a lifetime.

Obama seems to have "Picked up" on this. If he puts into place those things that FDR started, C.C.C., W.P.A., N.Y.A., etc. he will do well. The CCC alone fought forest fires, and replanted the trees. This was the Civilian Conservation Corps. Not California Civilian Corps.

[The Big Dog]

Heckheckle, as usual, needs to update his knowledge of history.

Six plus years of New Dealing did not raise the nation's economy one iota. Only when the country began to rearm, and produce boatloads of war material and food for the UK, did the economy start to chug again. The New Deal was Wilsonian progressivism put in place and managed by Wilson era progressives (of which FDR was one), who were getting their second bite at power.

Kind of like a lwho boatload of Clintonistas are getting right now with Barack.

One might also remember that the openly and dangerously fascistic National Recovery Act (the N.R.A.), the centerpiece of the New Deal, was declared unconstitutional. FDR's response to that was equally fascistic... he attempted to alter the constitution and pack the Supreme Court with judges who would side with him.

Yeah... great success that.

[moondog]

A nice review of history. I thank you, for you have given me something new to review.

[saunterelle]

As usual, conservatives deny that FDR's New Deal had any positive effect on the economy even though the evidence strongly suggests that this was that case. Conservatives are in denial about a lot of things. I wonder when they will pull their collective heads out of the sand.

[The Big Dog]

Saunterelle weighs in, expectedly, with talking points and claims of "denial".
Start here on your history refresher. When you are done with that, look here. If you'd like more scholarly references I'm happy to trot those out.

The facts around unemployment, assumption of debt and taxation do not demonstrate that the New Deal was successful in any large measure. If you have "evidence" that the New Deal had positive, not cosmetic, effect on the economy then please present it and let's debate that.

FDR's Treasury Secretary, Henry Morgenthau, who presided over much of the New Deal's implementation himself said quite candidly that the New Deal raised taxes, built a massive debt load and accomplished very little. And he was a Roosevelt loyalist. Morgenthau testified to exactly that before Congress in 1939 when unemployment was still running in double digits....

"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. And I have just one interest, and if I am wrong ... somebody else can have my job. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises ... I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started ... And an enormous debt to boot!"

FDR's New Deal is celebrated by the left as a shining example of what government can do. What it is, in reality and when dispassionately examined, would be an example of how progressive ideals launched with perfectly good intention can be nearly as harmful as doing nothing at all.

[moondog]

The Big Dog, I was told early on by another member that, "the more time you spend around here, the more you'll learn that criticism of Saunterelle like that is falling on deaf ears. To ask him to research a subject before posting on it is asking waaaay too much."

I am beginning to understand exactly what that meant. He keeps throwing darts toward the wall, praying one will actually hit the target without aiming.

[The Big Dog]

Darts or manure.... has about the same effect.

FWIW... I enjoy jousting with Saunterelle. While sometimes it seems like butting my head into a wall, I have found on a number of issues that presenting him with a well thought out response and a set of facts he might not have been aware will make him reconsider his position or opinion. Whether he changes his position or not doesn't really matter, in the long run, so long as he remains will to consider another side (as I try to) I think it's healthy enough.

He pokes at me, I poke at him and we are none the worse for it.

[The New Guy]

i'm not sure if i should be glad or sad to see heckleheckle back again. especially since i am about to do the one thing that caused his departure..... move this thread to the appropriate area.

i think he left in a huff because he thought i had some magical powers to hack into his account and move his posts. no, not at all. most of you know that i have "privileges" although i don't list myself as an administrator.

i'm just trying to keep a tidy forum.

[harpman1]

In the rest of the world, the period of the 1930's was known simply as The Depression.
FDR's policies made it The Great Depression, but only in the U.S.
Methinks Mssr. Saunt. went to public school.

[mink2]

I'm happy to see heckheckle back with us and I agree with him in that Obama will be trying to improve our country. In his speeches he has mentioned past presidents who have benefitted the country. Good ideas from the past combined with instrumental people in Obama's cabinet, we can't go wrong.

[harpman1]

Unless he actually does something.
Inwhich case we are screwed.

[moondog]

Dec 2, 2008 17:20:36 GMT -5 harpman1 said:

Unless he actually does something.
Inwhich case we are screwed.