Bristol Palin and......"Obama's Mama"

[Mink]

Sept 22, 2008 0:05:58 GMT -5 jgaffney said:

Sept 21, 2008 22:09:15 GMT -5 Mink said:

Crossride, as a single parent myself, I am just being realistic. As a Mom who has been actively supportive and responsible for my children, it is easy for me to see how "unrealistic" sarah/todd are projecting life as typical American loving parents. Most parents aren't in public office or have the time to do all they claim , from pleasing everybody to wanting to seceed from the lower 48, to hunting and saying "no" to Congress. When one looks for the answers, there is just too many discrepancies. This is why I question this pick of mccain. No, it isn't sexist at all.

First of all, you tried to slip in the "seceed" (sic) comment, which has been thoroughly refuted. Except, maybe, in your mind.

But, yes, it is sexist of you, coming from the Liberal Left that has been exhorting women for the past 50 years to cast off their traditional roles and stand up for what they really believe in. No self-respecting feminist would stand for being labelled as mother and homemaker when what she really wanted to be was governor. I'm sure, if you look hard enough, you can find plenty of examples in the Democrat Party of mothers who ran for public office. Now, when confronted with one who also happens to be a conservative Republican, it's driving the progressive feminists nuts.

I support McCain's choice, not only because it reinforces his conservative standards, but also because it brings in someone with executive experience that was gained outside of Washington. Governors always make better executives that senators - especially senators who only sat in the Senate for 143 days.

Please show me where it has been refuted that Todd is not a member of the American Indepence party?

You can label me as sexist, but you are wrong. Maybe palin is standing for what she believes in, but that puts the rest of us women of intelligence back 100 years. No one cares if this is her choice, but she already has her own issues to deal with at home. How can she take such an important role as VP? In Alaska, it is remote and there isn't much anyone can do, but beleive me, if she wants to face the rest of the country, she better expect questions.

Of course you relate to their standards, but you must realize that bush has messed up the country big time and eventually people will wake up and smell the coffee........the brew is stale.

[jgaffney]

Sept 22, 2008 0:56:54 GMT -5 Mink said:

Please show me where it has been refuted that Todd is not a member of the American Indepence party?

Yes, Mink, it is true that Todd Palin, not Sarah, was a member of the AIP until 2002. Sarah has been a registered Republican all along. How does her husband's earlier political alliance relate to her current views?

Maybe

alin is standing for what she believes in, but that puts the rest of us women of intelligence back 100 years.

Please explain how Gov. Sarah Palin sets the feminist movement back 100 years, while Hillary Clinton's expansive public life, including her refusal to divorce her philandering husband, didn't.

[saunterelle]

Yes, Mink, it is true that Todd Palin, not Sarah, was a member of the AIP until 2002. Sarah has been a registered Republican all along. How does her husband's earlier political alliance relate to her current views?

In the same way that (you seem to think) the politics of Obama's ex-pastor somehow reflects his own. Palin's husband, the man she married and pumped out 5 kids with, would be much more influential on Sarah's views than a pastor would be on Obama's.

Please explain how Gov. Sarah Palin sets the feminist movement back 100 years, while Hillary Clinton's expansive public life, including her refusal to divorce her philandering husband, didn't.

See here www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/21/INAI130HCV.DTL

[jgaffney]

Sept 22, 2008 13:51:05 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

In the same way that (you seem to think) the politics of Obama's ex-pastor somehow reflects his own. Palin's husband, the man she married and pumped out 5 kids with, would be much more influential on Sarah's views than a pastor would be on Obama's.

My wife has been a registered Democrat since she was old enough to vote. I come from a family of registered Democrats, and my five siblings constantly berate me for "falling away." So, tell me again why the husband's political affiliation, which he ended SIX YEARS AGO is generic in today's discussion.

See here www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/21/INAI130HCV.DTL

Nice pick: a liberal feminist columnist for the SF Chronicle, the Left coast's answer to the NY TImes. But, setting aside for a minute the thinness of your source's credentials, let's look at the points she makes, one by one:

• Palin is the neophyte governor of a sparsely populated and eccentric state. Few people had heard of her before the announcement. She has few substantive accomplishments to point to on the issues that are important to voters right now - the economy, health care, education.
  
  Obama is the freshman senator from Illinois, serving a total of 143 days in the Senate before he started his run for the presidency. During his tenure in the Senate, his major accomplishments included:
  
  1.
  2.
  3.
  
  Feel free to fill in those blanks.
  
  
• In interviews, she has exhibited a total lack of genuine interest in foreign policy, John McCain's one great passion during this campaign. (The problem with her not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is isn't that she didn't understand the concept; the problem is that she wasn't interested enough to pay attention when it was being discussed.)
  
  The "Bush Doctrine" is a construct of the media, and the definition of the doctrine has shifted three or four times since 2001. What is your understanding of the "Bush Doctrine"? The Vice President is not expected to be an expert on foreign policy - witness the tenure of Al Gore - and the columnist only brings that up because foreign policy is Joe Biden's strong suit. That's a good thing, because it is Barack Obama's weak suit.
  
  
• What she brings to the ticket is her personal story, her conservative social views, and - most important - her gender.
  
  And that is exactly what has infuriated the Left, bringing the intolerance out for all to see.
  
  
• Then, consider the behavior of hers that we have been allowed to witness thus far. She gave a spectacularly small-hearted speech at the Republican National Convention that trashed her opponent but did little to make the case for her own capacities. She lies on the stump - she lies about "Troopergate," she lies about the "Bridge to Nowhere," she lies about her own record, she lies about the amount of energy Alaska supplies to the United States.
  
  Only the rabid Left thinks that Palin's speech at the convention was a zero. But, when Obama lies to the senior citizens of Florida, telling them that their Social Security is at risk because of John McCain's plans to privatize the system, plans which would not affect any current retiree, how do you justify that? The claims the columnist makes on Troopergate and the Bridge to Nowhere are campaign fodder, up to dispute.
  

If you are curious about the political bent of the columnist, just look at the articles listed in her archive.

[saunterelle]

Obama is the freshman senator from Illinois, serving a total of 143 days in the Senate before he started his run for the presidency. During his tenure in the Senate, his major accomplishments included:

1.
2.
3.

Feel free to fill in those blanks.

Gladly. Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.

COMMITTEE ASSIGNMENTS:
Obama holds assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations; Health, Education, Labor and Pensions; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs, and he is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus.

-------------------------

As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.<61>

Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.

He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.

Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.

He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.

Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.<68>

Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.

joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.

Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

THESE ARE BARACK'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE U.S. SENATE TO DATE:

** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.


**The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Funding_Accountabi...


**The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/chrisblas...


**The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
www.rollcall.com/issues/53_17/news/19664-1.html?...
www.commonblog.com/story/2007/9/14/164837/331

** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s109-2125

** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
www.pasesetter.org/demonstrationPrograms/nasd.ht...

Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
obama.senate.gov /



Amendments, that have all passed:

S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

----------------------------------------------

[jgaffney]

Saunterelle cites a liberal feminist's column in the SF Chron as justification for Mink's position that Gov. Sarah Palin is setting feminism back 100 years. Saunterelle must have somehow overlooked this column from the very same paper:

There's a new affliction sweeping the nation, and it's known as Palin Derangement Syndrome. The phenomenon is similar to Bush Derangement Syndrome, a term coined by political columnist Charles Krauthammer to describe the personal animosity and irrational hatred directed at President Bush by his leftist opponents. But this time, Republican presidential candidate John McCain's running mate, Sarah Palin, is the object of wrath.

The feeding frenzy began with the news of Palin's selection, but it was her electrifying speech at the Republic National Convention last month that really set it off. In one fell swoop, Palin managed to energize the Republican base, breathe life into the McCain campaign, launch some very effective jabs at Barack Obama, and quite possibly, attract the support of the 18 million Hillary Clinton voters.

The attacks on Palin have ranged from patronizing to vicious to fantastical. She has been caricatured as an inexperienced rube, a baby-making automaton, an uneducated underachiever, a bad mother, trailer-park trash, a rightwing religious fanatic, a sexual fantasy, and of course, a fascist. No subject has been deemed taboo in the effort to take Palin down.

What her detractors don't seem to realize is that in the process of insulting Palin, they are insulting the majority of the country. If being a self-made success story, a working mother, a church-going member of a small-town community, and a believer in moderate to conservative political viewpoints disqualifies Palin, what does that say about mainstream America? The inherent condescension at the heart of the anti-Palin campaign is coming across loud and clear and it may actually be boosting her popularity.

The sexist tenor of the attacks on Palin is only furthering this process. Some of the worst comments have emanated from self-professed feminists who seem to resent the path Palin has taken in life, even as it parallels their own. The always independent-minded Camille Paglia is a notable exception, but by and large, the liberal, female establishment has turned on Palin . Never mind that Palin -- with an amazing record of professional accomplishment, a happy marriage, and five beautiful children -- is the personification of the feminist "women can have it all" ideal.

What all the attackers have in common is an almost pathological hatred and attendant desire to project upon Palin all of their worst fears, prejudices, and in some cases, fantasies. In the pages of Salon Magazine, for instance, writer Gary Kamiya likened her to a "dominatrix," while University of Michigan Middle East studies professor Juan Cole compared her to a "Muslim fundamentalist" and a member of the Taliban.

In what constitutes the lowest of the low, a number of Palin's opponents have focused on her children or rather, their apparent resentment that she has chosen to have children. The National Review's Byron York catalogued several of these in a recent column for The Hill.

As he noted: Wendy Doniger, the Mircea Eliade Distinguished Service Professor of the History of Religions at the University of Chicago Divinity School, wrote that Palin's "greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman" and denounced "the Republican Party's cynical calculation that because [Palin] has a womb and makes lots and lots of babies -- she speaks for the women of America.

"Carol Fowler, the chairman of the South Carolina Democratic Party, said that Palin's "primary qualification seems to be that she hasn't had an abortion."

Other adversaries have questioned Palin's ability as a mother and in particular, a mother with a special needs baby, while still others have used her teenage daughter's pregnancy to undermine her credibility. But Palin's domestic challenges are shared by millions of Americans and tend to elicit more sympathy than condemnation. And everyone knows a male politician would never be asked such questions.

Always eager to proffer their political opinions, a host of Hollywood celebrities have issued their own high-minded objections to Palin. Lindsay Lohan weighed in with her condescending belief that Palin is only "qualified to be" a "television anchor."Matt Damon likened Palin's candidacy to a "really bad Disney movie," and Gina Gershon went so far as to impersonate Palin in a vicious and unfunny clip that culminates in her stripping down to a bikini. The list goes on, but every time another one of these desperately out-of-touch with America celebrities tries to belittle Palin, it has the opposite effect.

Despite her impressive resume, Palin has been dogged by accusations that she lacks experience and foreign policy know-how. Democrats have pointed to the first part of her recent interview with ABC's Charlie Gibson as a "gotcha" moment simply because Palin asked Gibson to clarify what he meant by the Bush Doctrine. As columnist Charles Krauthammer points out, the Bush Doctrine has held four different definitions over the course of the last eight years and has never been finally determined by the Bush administration. The term was, in fact, originated by Krauthammer. But Palin's detractors have ignored this inconvenient fact, as well as failing to notice that Gibson's pompous manner and ridiculously suspicious questions have become the real story.

Generally speaking, a public backlash over perceived media bias against Palin may be brewing. US Weekly's decision to run a trashy cover story on Palin titled, "Baby, Lies & Scandal" (two months after a glowing cover story on the Obamas) has reportedly resulted in thousands of cancellations. In a larger sense, a September 4 Rasmussen poll notes that "51% of American voters think reporters are trying to hurt Sarah Palin with their news coverage, and 24% say those stories make them more likely to vote for Republican presidential candidate John McCain in November."

The media has been fixated on Palin for weeks and one is hard pressed to go a day without hearing some or another allegation being trotted out. The worst example was when mainstream media outlets ran with a lurid rumor originating with an anonymous diarist at the leftist blog Daily Kos that insinuated that Palin's son Trig was actually her grandson. The falsehoods surrounding Palin on the Internet have been so widely reproduced that FactCheck.org, a nonpartisanw Web site, posted a listing of corrections aptly titled, "Sliming Palin.

"The all-out assault on the genuine and likable Palin is certainly a blessing in disguise for the Republican Party. Not only is it galvanizing Republicans, but the nasty tone and hysterical nature are turning off potential Democratic voters. In particular, those Democrats who, in the words of Obama speaking after a fundraiser at the Getty mansion in San Francisco earlier this year, "cling to their guns and religion." When Palin referenced Obama's gaffe in her RNC speech, calling him out for speaking about Americans "one way in Scranton and another in San Francisco," it was evident that she had her finger on the pulse of the Democratic Party's discord.

So too Palin's praise for Hillary Clinton and her reference to the "18 million cracks in the glass ceiling." In building on McCain's already existing strategy of reaching out to Hillary voters and others disaffected with the DNC leadership, Palin demonstrated a political savvy that the Obama camp never saw coming.

In choosing Palin as his running mate, McCain displayed the boldness and forward-thinking that his Democratic rival Obama has yet to embody. By picking the conventional Joe Biden over Hillary Clinton as his running mate, Obama failed to live up to his own mantra of "change." He also failed to recognize a politically smart move when it was staring him in the face, as Clinton would have presumably brought millions of votes with her.

In fact, rumors that the Obama ticket would seek to unburden itself of Biden and replace him with Hillary in the coming weeks have been circulating, and at least one Huffington Post columnist has suggested as much. Some have speculated that Democrats may be experiencing a bout of buyer's remorse over their choice of Obama to head the ticket. Obama's empty rhetoric about "hope" and "change" certainly pales in light of the actual reform implemented by Palin in Alaska and by McCain throughout his career. Meanwhile his brief resume and lack of political savvy and even at times, personal likability (his odd sense of humor comes to mind) have become liabilities.

But Obama's worst enemy is not himself, or even Sarah Palin, but rather, the ranks of his own rabid supporters. If they keep it up, McCain could be laughing all the way to the White House.

There are many more links in the original document. I urge you to read it on the SFChron's website.

Saunterelle, I'll get back to you on your list of Obama's achievements.

[crossride]

Sept 22, 2008 15:16:15 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Obama is the freshman senator from Illinois, serving a total of 143 days in the Senate before he started his run for the presidency. During his tenure in the Senate, his major accomplishments included:

1.
2.
3.

Feel free to fill in those blanks.

Gladly. Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.

I will admit to not being the most politically educated person, and maybe it is not my place to enter such a debate, but I felt like it. Saunterelle, if Obama had been in the Senate for 143 days before basically leaving to camapign, how has he "written" 890 bills, which is over 6 a day EVERY day he was a Senator?

Co-sponsering bills I can see. All you have to do is have your name printed at the bottom of the document. Big whoopdie doo!

I seriously doubt that Obama (and probably most of the suits in Washington) actually "write" much of anything. I find that laughable that they would claim otherwise. I'm too smart to fall for that.

[Mink]

Sept 22, 2008 13:51:05 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Yes, Mink, it is true that Todd Palin, not Sarah, was a member of the AIP until 2002. Sarah has been a registered Republican all along. How does her husband's earlier political alliance relate to her current views?

In the same way that (you seem to think) the politics of Obama's ex-pastor somehow reflects his own. Palin's husband, the man she married and pumped out 5 kids with, would be much more influential on Sarah's views than a pastor would be on Obama's.

Please explain how Gov. Sarah Palin sets the feminist movement back 100 years, while Hillary Clinton's expansive public life, including her refusal to divorce her philandering husband, didn't.

See here www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/21/INAI130HCV.DTL

Thank you saunterelle!! Good answers

[saunterelle]

Sept 22, 2008 19:37:38 GMT -5 Mink said:

Sept 22, 2008 13:51:05 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

In the same way that (you seem to think) the politics of Obama's ex-pastor somehow reflects his own. Palin's husband, the man she married and pumped out 5 kids with, would be much more influential on Sarah's views than a pastor would be on Obama's.



See here www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/09/21/INAI130HCV.DTL

Thank you saunterelle!! Good answers

Thanks Mink! I'll pipe in when I can.

[crossride]

Yes... let the love flow... but Saunterelle... why not address my question?