'Spread the Wealth Around'

[ferrous]

I'm a bit disappointed that TBD, Gaff, or Subdjoe hasn't reported this one yet.

It's causing me to have to come out of my quasi-political-reality depression like-funk and supply more useless fodder in defining Sen. Barack Obama.

Sen. Obama (who holds a 53% to 39% lead over the old befuddled geezer) has finally come out and is now defining himself.

October 13, 2008

Barack Obama told a tax-burdened plumber over the weekend that his economic philosophy is to "spread the wealth around" -- a comment that may only draw fire from riled-up John McCain supporters who have taken to calling Obama a "socialist" at the Republican's rallies.

Obama made the remark, caught on camera, after fielding some tough questions from the plumber Sunday in Ohio, where the Democratic candidate canvassed neighborhoods and encouraged residents to vote early.

"Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn't it?" the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed "more and more for fulfilling the American dream."

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they've got a chance for success too," Obama responded. "My attitude is that if the economy's good for folks from the bottom up, it's gonna be good for everybody ... I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/13/obama-plumber-plan-spread-wealth/

The plumber who Sen Obama made the reply to stated afterwords that Senators answer "scared me even more."

www.breitbart.tv/?p=195153

So now we have:

"It's patriotic to pay taxes"

"I think when you spread the wealth around, it's good for everybody."

And my all time favorite...

"They get bitter. They cling to their guns and religion."

Wait a minute, that line was plagiarized from the great community organizer Saul Alinsky when he wrote;

"Seeking some meaning in life, they turn to an extreme chauvinism and become defenders of the 'American faith'....Insecure in this fast-changing world they cling to illusory fixed points....The 'silent majority', now, are hurt, bitter, suspicious, feeling rejected and at bay.”

It seems that when it comes to Socialism, Winston Churchill said it best;

"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.''-Sir Winston Churchill

[The Big Dog]

Yeah I saw the plumber piece. It's too late.

Now that his election is looking certain he's copping out to all kinds of things. And America has no concept what a pig in a poke they've been sold on this deal.

[JustMyOpinion]

So, "Joe the Plumber" (if he had a license) wants to buy a plumbing business...

His taxes would increase AFTER the 250k mark by an additional 3% (From 36%-39%). In that tax bracket is that really so much?And, how many of you will be hurt by this anyway? Incase you all didn't notice this country is so screwed financially, and it is not going to get any better any time soon. If we don't take some sort of action by taxes how else are we going to generate money to sustain this country? We are in debt up to our eyeballs now to China and god knows who else. If we don't watch our backs we will be owned by every other country but our own. Prior to the financial crisis I would've been against taxing successful people, but now...

Personally I think the 250k is too low, maybe 500k is a better place to start, but then I can wish for all kinds of things...

[JustMyOpinion]

After thought: Small business owners can write off thousands of dollars in business expenses to adjust their taxable income level, so this whole poor "Joe the Plumber" stuff probably isn't very as effective as people would like to believe.

[The Big Dog]

For what it's worth, Joe the Plumber is going to be on Mike Huckabee's show on Fox Saturday at 5 PM Pacific so see for yourself.

Also for what it's worth, in any kind of skilled trade work $250K annually is a pretty easy threshold to reach, particularly if you are anything more than a sole operator, as in employing a couple of guys or more. I dumped about $2500 to my plumber on a bathroom remodel in materials and labor for a three day job. He has a half dozen employees all working steady plus whatever he makes in after hours, emergency calls and billable maintenance contracts he has.

And while there are write offs available I would also point out that one of the first things targeted in raising taxes is eliminating or scaling back write offs and write downs.

Professional services such as doctors, lawyers, accountants, consultants, engineers and the like are also going to get nailed to the wall by the Obama plan.

And all those costs of additional taxes are going to get passed right along to you the consumer. Anyone who thinks otherwise either failed Econ 101 or is a complete fool. By that measure it's going to hurt each and every American regardless of their station in life or income. This is because of the pure and unassailable economic fact that everything trickes down, no matter how much the big government, closed minded buffoons want to proseletyze otherwise.

But what the hell, right? So long as Barack sends a quiver up your leg who cares, really.

[bolverk]

Since when is $250,000 a year considered rich? Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, but in today's world, no way.

[bolverk]

TBD is exalted for clearly explaining why trickle down is real and not imagined.

[saunterelle]

If trickle down worked we would be seeing the results of it now after many years of Republican rule. The truth is that it doesn't work.

There are two simple rules:

If you give rich people more money they save it.

If you give poor/middle class people money they spend it on bills, paying off debt, etc. and it stimulates our economy.

Very simple. Watch it work when Obama is President.

[The Big Dog]

Oct 16, 2008 16:11:04 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

If trickle down worked we would be seeing the results of it now after many years of Republican rule. The truth is that it doesn't work.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see because of political convenience. Please do some scholarly reading on economic fundementals and get back to us.

There are two simple rules:

If you give rich people more money they save it.

On this point you are both right and wrong. Rich people tend to invest their money to make it grow. Warren Buffett, after all, didn't get to where he is by squirreling his money into a passbook savings account. The national experience as a result of the tax cuts of both John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan prove you utterly and completely wrong on this point.

You really need to get some better education around fundemental economic principles.

If you give poor/middle class people money they spend it on bills, paying off debt, etc. and it stimulates our economy.

To a point yes, however it does not stimulate nearly as much as investment from the top which:

* Puts money into the economy
* Creates jobs

Both of which would, ultimately, trickle down. This is the key element that your politically motivated blinders keeps you from seeing.

Very simple. Watch it work when Obama is President.

We've seen what is going to happen before... 1977-1981, James Earl Carter. I'd prefer not to revisit those days, but if you and Barack are so bound and determined...... good luck and enjoy the ride.

Why do you think the stock market won't settle down right now, no matter how many taxpayer dollars the government seems willing to borrow and pump into it? The markets are not a measure of past performance but of future expectations. There are any number of traders and market movers out there who are not confident. The on going volatility demonstrates that.

[saunterelle]

Under the Bush Administration the banks are being taken over by the government. Isn't that a type of socialism? Obviously deregulation hasn't worked.

[JustMyOpinion]

Oct 16, 2008 15:49:20 GMT -5 @bolverk said:

Since when is $250,000 a year considered rich? Maybe 40 or 50 years ago, but in today's world, no way.

I agree with you, that's especially true here in the Bay Area. I had previously posted in this thread maybe the starting level should be 500k.

[JustMyOpinion]

Interesting article:

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27221645

snippet:

While Wurzelbacher told Obama that he would be taxed at a higher rate because the company grossed more than $250,000 a year, Ohio business records show the company’s estimated total annual revenue as only $100,000. Actual taxable income would be even less than that.

In any event, Obama’s tax plan specifies that the higher rate would apply only to income above the $250,000 threshold. Assuming Wurzelbacher’s income as owner somehow hit $280,000 — the top end of his supposition of the company’s revenue — only the extra $30,000 would be taxed at a higher rate.

Joe says Obama would be ‘hurting others’
Analysts calculated that the extra tax would amount to $900, which would likely be more than offset by separate provisions of Obama’s plan: a 50 percent tax credit for health care and elimination of the capital gains tax for small businesses.

“I’d have to look at your particular business, but you might end up paying lower taxes under my plan and my approach than under John McCain’s,” Obama told Wurzelbacher during their exchange last weekend.