Concerned for Obama's safety

[Mink]

Oct 20, 2008 23:45:55 GMT -5 The New Guy said:

did i miss something? perhaps you left out the part where john and sara step up to the microphone and say, "ladies and gentleman, obama pals around with a known domestic terrorist and his economic policies are socialist therefore you must resort to violence!"

please provide a video or audio clip of that because it's the only way you will convince me they are inciting violence.

btw, did you know obama incites racism at his rallies? it's true because i said it is. he stands up there and tells people how bad mccain's policies are and people take that to mean that since he is white then white people are bad and they must hate them.

get my point, now?

First of all, John & sarah should get their words right. Ayers was an activist, not terrorist. Just like the Saudis attacked on 9/11, not Iraqis.

[The New Guy]

of course not.

[saunterelle]

did i miss something? perhaps you left out the part where john and sara step up to the microphone and say, "ladies and gentleman, obama pals around with a known domestic terrorist and his economic policies are socialist therefore you must resort to violence!"

The problem is, they leave the "domestic" out of the phrase and say "Obama pals around with terrorists." You all know good and well what kind of connection they are hoping to make. Some people still believe (even after the Rev. Wright scandal) that Obama is a Muslim. When Palin says he pals around with terrorists, not everyone in the crowd is thinking Bill Ayers, they're thinking Osama Bin Laden. It's a desperate ploy to prey on America's simpleminded, ignorant, and uneducated, but I guess that's why Palin was picked in the first place. I'm just hoping it doesn't have disastrous results.

[saunterelle]

BigDog wrote:

Bill Ayers, and his wife (also an Obama friend) are most assuredly hard core socialists, they both still preach from that bible. Reverend Wright is a race baiting, black liberation theology preaching loose cannon, whom Barack apparently heard nothing untoward from despite sitting in the man's church for twenty years. Then there is Barack's outright denial of having been a key figure spinning around ACORN in the 1990's. The outright lies of his denials had to be taken down from his "Fight the Smears" web site because they were proven beyond a doubt to be abject lies.

He was repportedly something of a lazy college student, we can't be entirely sure because he continues to stonewall release of his full college record. We do know that he graduated Columbia with a Poli Sci degree and zero honors, that would be a GPA below 3.3. That makes his admission to Harvard Law most likely based on factors aside from his academic record at Columbia, and the JuCo in California that he did two years at before transferring to Columbia.

We know he authored exactly one small article during his incumbency as president of the Harvard Law Review, but we know precious little else.

The bottom line here is that the sum of a man's education and experiences are, in large part, indiciative of how he will be looking forward. Barack comes from the corrupt belly of the Chicago Democrat machine. He has closely and comfortably associated with some of the most radical elements of the modern left wing. His "plan" for America includes a healthy dose of socialist policy and process.

And perhaps I am the only one who has noticed that Barack's call for a civilian "national police force" (which on it's face sounded extremely fascistic when he was floating it) have disappearred from his stump speech and web site.

I understand that he is your man and I understand that I can't sway you. But America has a right to know iintimately at a basis level of philosophy and outlook who they are electing president. Barack has been far less than fully reticent to this point. Yet, you are telling me it's over, everything will be okay, so just forget about it.

Well sorry, but I can't buy that. And America shouldn't have to.

BigDog, you make some very good points here. I agree that it's important to know a candidate's philosophy, and analyzing a few of Obama's extreme associates doesn't instill a lot of confidence. However, after reading Obama's books and garnering a feel for the man and his political ideas through his own writings, I am confident that he is not the extreme socialist/leftist you think he is. True, I am taking Obama at his word, but I have grown to trust him more than McCain (picking Palin crossed the line) and have faith that he will act responsibly once in office. Even with a Democrat-controlled House and Senate, I think he will be more moderate than we expect.

Keep in mind that McCain finished at the bottom of his class in the military academy. In fact, he probably never would have got in except for his dad and family legacy so the "affirmative action" calls against Obama are negated. McCain's courage is commendable but it doesn't make up for his lack of book smarts. Comparing his education and Obama's is apples to oranges.

[The Big Dog]

From what I've read of Barack's written work he certainly leans pretty far to the left. Extreme.... maybe and maybe not. I still need to finish poring over his books in their entirety.

From his voting record, where he actually has taken a yay or nay position, he is decidedly left. His floor speech record that I've reviewed indicates same. Then there are all those troubling associations, which he himself has described as formative to him and his belief system.

I'm left to wonder just what McCain's class standing at Annapolis has to be with anything? And so what if he was a legacy? Lots of legacies get admitted to universities all over this country every year. And since McCain managed to acheive command rank and successfully hold commands in spite of what you perceive as a poor performance in school seems to put the lie to your entire line of thought.

How about this.... Barack did two years JuCo, transferred to Columbia and graduated BS in Poli Sci, with no honors. That is indicative of a GPA of 3.3 or less. We don't know how much less because he refuses to release his college records. The last time I checked less than 3.3 doesn't get you into Harvard Law, so presumably there were some other factors involved in Barack's admission, no? That he finished magna cum laude (top 10% or so) at Harvard Law is commendable, but clearly it seems indicative of him turning his academic career around about 180 degrees along the way and actually getting serious.

This entire "education as experience" parley is somewhat ludicrous anyway, and to rely on it discounts everything that either man has done since leaving college. In McCain's case it's quite a bit. In Barack's case, it's not. And if education counts for so much, the current president has a Harvard MBA, yet I'd wager you perceive him as a simpleton.

Perhaps the most educated man to ever hold the office, Thomas Woodrow Wilson, PhD. was a consummate "progressive" and in many ways a failure who dragged the country so close to a fascistic state that no one really likes to talk about it today. The only other Annapolis graduate to hold the office was Jimmy Carter, who finished fairly high in his class, and we know how well his presidency worked out. Meanwhile a guy with a BS in Economics from a podunk college no one heard of was arguably one of the greatest presidents of the 20th century. And another man with no college degree at all is revered as one of the best presidents ever, even though he was tremendously unpopular when he was in office.

I am happy that you think so well of Barack that even with a Democrat controlled Congress he will be more moderate than we expect. I think you are dead wrong, and we're all going to pay a very big price for it.

[surefire]

Oct 20, 2008 23:37:49 GMT -5 Mink said:

Oct 20, 2008 23:34:09 GMT -5 The New Guy said:

please explain "how" mccain/palin rallies "encourage" ppl to be violent.

i eagerly await your evidence.

"paling around with terrorists", "he's a Socialist", ...come now, this is old news and all they've got. Mccain had to tell people that Obama is a decent family man after words of anger/rage came from Palin's rallies. Good grief!

Well.... judging by his voting record and his own words, he appears to be a socialist. Even with that said, how does calling someone a socialist encourage violence?

Are you saying all the hate mongering from the extreme left somehow doesn't encourage violence? But if its coming from the right it is? IMO, unless violence is actually mentioned in a speech, it is just strong words... from either side.

[The New Guy]

Oct 21, 2008 10:01:07 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

The problem is, they leave the "domestic" out of the phrase and say "Obama pals around with terrorists

please explain how terrorists and domestic terrorists differ. i can't wait to hear your response. is one more acceptable than the other?

[The New Guy]

Oct 21, 2008 10:12:20 GMT -5 saunterelle said:

Keep in mind that McCain finished at the bottom of his class in the military academy. In fact, he probably never would have got in except for his dad and family legacy so the "affirmative action" calls against Obama are negated. McCain's courage is commendable but it doesn't make up for his lack of book smarts. Comparing his education and Obama's is apples to oranges.

you must admit you are merely speculating here. do you have any proof that mccain's father was the only reason he was accepted to the USNA? i didn't think so. graduating any service academy is an achievement to be revered. most people wouldn't make a pimple on the ass of an academy graduate. i dare say it is more difficult to graduate bottom of your academy class than it is to graduate summa cum laude from harvard.

[subdjoe]

Well said, New Guy. Anyone who graduates from a military academy is a 'generalized specialist' who comes out with really the equivilant of a couple of degrees. Plus a huge dose of self discipline and respect.

[Mink]

Well.... judging by his voting record and his own words, he appears to be a socialist. Even with that said, how does calling someone a socialist encourage violence?

Are you saying all the hate mongering from the extreme left somehow doesn't encourage violence? But if its coming from the right it is? IMO, unless violence is actually mentioned in a speech, it is just strong words... from either side.

How is he a Socialist? Is it socialism what Bush is doing to solve the financial mess? Why aren't you speaking up about that? We own the banks or will. That is socialism.

Regarding how this categorizing cultivates violence, you ask? Listen to the crowds at Palin rallies. Being a Socialists shouldn't spark negativity or violence, but that along with "paling around with terrorists", leads some people to fear and fear leads to violence.
Mccain/Palin know the Democrats stand a good chance to win, they have nothing to offer. Being a Democrat isn't scary, but Socialists is foreign....Communism is also foreign.
Just today, there is another accusation for the people in N. VA. Did you know they are Communists, per John Mccain's brother. Do you see where this is going?

What hate mongering are you talking about from Obama's campaign? Please provide a link?

Strong words are exactly that. Obama has been giving strong speeches providing answers to our problems.

Mccain/Palin's strong words are destructive adjectives towards an individual-Obama, causing many people to behave fearful or in a frenzy shouting out strong words of hatred.

[surefire]

Stealing from the wealthy to give to the poor IMO is socialism.

Obama clearly stated he believes in wealth redistribution.

Attacking any of the bill of rights / constitution is IMO socialism.

This isn't about Bush, whom must of us non-lefties will admit is NOT a real conservative and has socialist tendencies anyway. I don't like Bush in the first place. This discussion was about Obama, but feel free to keep bringing up Bush in order to deflect the heat from our friend.

One must have rose colored glasses on if one does not recognize hate mongering directed toward Palin and Bush. Just walk in downtown Santa Rosa if you would like to hear the vile colorful metaphors used when discussions about Palin/Bush take place. You can almost smell the venom when Palin and Bush are discussed by their haters.

Please don't put words in my mouth, I never said Obama's campaign was directly involved in hate mongering. I said the extreme left does so (and I implied both sides of the aisle do). Big difference-- I didn't blame the campaign. It's much easier to always blame one side though, I guess.

Regarding answers to our problems... this is debatable. Even if his ideas will work, where will we get the money? Bush & Friends have the country so much in debt that Obama will NOT be able to magically come up with a budget to make the world a better place where we can all sing and dance in a circle, holding hands. If Obama wants to spend huge amounts, he will have to tax... and despite his promise, in the end, he will need to tax a LOT more than people making 250k if we are ever going to get the debt heading in the right direction, IMO. Either this, or cut spending and let his social programs fall... which I doubt he will be willing to do.

Mccain/Palin's strong words are destructive adjectives towards an individual-Obama, causing many people to behave fearful or in a frenzy shouting out strong words of hatred.

I will give you this one. Palin has gone too far at times.

[saunterelle]

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis surefire.

Attacking any of the bill of rights / constitution is IMO socialism.

I'm curious how you think Obama is attacking the bill of rights/constitution? My hope is that Obama will reverse the damage done to our rights by the "Patriot Act" and illegal wire tapping.

This isn't about Bush, whom must of us non-lefties will admit is NOT a real conservative and has socialist tendencies anyway. I don't like Bush in the first place. This discussion was about Obama, but feel free to keep bringing up Bush in order to deflect the heat from our friend.

This is a funny statement to me. Most conservatives believed Bush was the next great conservative President when he was elected in 2000 and reelected in 2004. Now that his "free market" economic policies are failing, you say he has socialist tendencies. He is using socialist methods grudgingly, not because he wants to, but because they work.

Regarding answers to our problems... this is debatable. Even if his ideas will work, where will we get the money? Bush & Friends have the country so much in debt that Obama will NOT be able to magically come up with a budget to make the world a better place where we can all sing and dance in a circle, holding hands. If Obama wants to spend huge amounts, he will have to tax... and despite his promise, in the end, he will need to tax a LOT more than people making 250k if we are ever going to get the debt heading in the right direction, IMO. Either this, or cut spending and let his social programs fall... which I doubt he will be willing to do.

You're absolutely right. Obama has said that our country faces huge problems and it won't be a quick or easy fix to get back on track. I just think it's better to try something new because the policies of the past 8 years (which McCain would continue) obviously aren't working.