McCain getting hosed in the press?

[bolverk]

It is Obama who is portraying himself as Black, not a mix. If people do not know the truth, it is because he is lying by omission.

[bolverk]

Oct 31, 2008 15:16:13 GMT -5 JustMyOpinion said:

Bolverk, you said:

You do not know anything about taxes, at all. The BS put forth by our government concerning taxes. It is called Duckspeak

Well, I'm no expert for sure, but when in doubt I do ask others.

I'd asked my other half who is very much against taxes being raised, has a CFP license, is very Republican (ish), and shall we say FRUGAL, and the response is similar to mine. We have to, and if it's done right the trickle down won't be felt anymore than what we are experiencing now especially if the top income earners pay a smaller percent increase on income over 250k, and the largest percentage of small business owners don't earn over 250k, so...

I'm not speakin no duck either...

I am just looking for a sensible solution to the mess we are in now. Again, what would work as far as you're concerned?

Any talk about supporting income tax is duckspeak. Look the term up, you might learn something that surprises you. Taxes were the beginning of class warfare in this nation. It only took three years before the rates were doubled and another two years before the original rate was raised six times and the new rate was tripled. This in a country that never needed an income tax before. An income tax that would cause our fore fathers to once again take up arms. That is the truth about taxes.

[bolverk]

I quote Thomas Jefferson:

“…it may be the pleasure and the pride of an American to ask, what farmer, what mechanic, what laborer ever sees a tax gatherer of the United States?”

Every damn one of us now. Our government has given us the very thing that caused this country to be created. Oppressive taxation. We do not need income taxes. We never have. Income taxes do not even bring in half the expenditures of the governments budget. The only fair tax is a sales tax. Not a VAT tax, but a single sales tax on all retail sales. That is the only system that the government cannot game and use against us.

[bolverk]

More Jefferson:

The revenue on the consumption of foreign articles, is paid cheerfully by those who can afford to add foreign luxuries to domestic comforts, being collected on our seaboards and frontiers only, and incorporated with the transactions of our mercanitile citizens, it may be the pleasure and pride of an American to ask, what farmer, what mechanic, what laborer, eer sees a tax-gatherer of the United States?

Second Inaugural Address. viii, 41. Ford ed, viii, 343- (1805)

These revenues will be levied entirely on the rich, the business of household manufacture being now so established that the farmer and laborer clothe themselves entirely. The rich alone use imported articles, and on these alone the whole taxes of the General Government are levied. The poor man, who uses nothing but what is made in his own farm or family, or within his own country, pays not a farthing of tax to the General Government, but on his salt; and should we go into manufacture also, as is probable, he will pay nothing. Our revenues liberated by the discharge of the public debt, and its surplus applied to canals, roads, schools &c, the farmer will see his government supported, his children educated, and the face of his country made a paradise by the contribution of the rich alone, without his being called on to spend a cent from his earnings.

*-To General Kosciusko. v, 586 (M., 1811)

[bolverk]

By the time Obama is done, we will be paying taxes on our salt as well.

[JustMyOpinion]

Bolverk, I thought of you when I read the following post (in Houston Chron) and thought the poster made some compelling points on how Obama is, or can be viewed as black:

For those of you who are disputing his blackness because he is half white: WOW.

Almost as bad as those who wouldn't vote for him because of his blackness.

You know, if a woman had been elected president, I would be happy for women in America, little girls and daughters and moms all realizing at once that even they could someday be president. If it had been an Asian-American, Latino or Jewish person or any other minority or hypen-American, I would be celebrating for them today just as well.

It's the first time we have elected someone who isn't a white male.

But you are so full of fear, hate and loathing that you cannot bear to celebrate the enormity of this historical occasion and you are unable to be a true Christian and act with love toward your fellow man and congratulate them with sincerity and without putting an asterisk next to the accomplishment.... "well, he's not really black, you know, he's half-black...." WOW.

Why not graciously observe and congratulate black people as they celebrate? What will it hurt if you do that? Will it take anything away from the goodness of your soul, or will it enrich your soul to smile with blacks, African-Americans, or "Afro-Americans" (as Mobea calls them... nice 1970's lingo. Harmless and it WAS the preferred PC term back then, but it IS 2008 now) and allow them their big moment.

Isn't this better than rioting after Rodney King? Of course it is, black people are happy and proud and feel like they have gained something that was long elusive. What is so bad about acknowledging that? He isn't black enough to let black people have their moment? Only mixed-race people should be celebrating? Or it's only half an accomplishment because he's half-white? Is it a mathematics formula to you?

As for his level of blackness, rest assured, had he been born less than a century ago, he would have been considered by racists to be quite black enough to be subjected to all available forms of racial discrimination, abuse, denial of civil rights and just plain meanness. Yes, half-black would have been considered "close enough!" and qualified him for a lynching if he had been caught in the wrong spot at the wrong time.

Let's put it another way: if Obama wasn't famous and nobody knew anything about him, how do you think he'd be treated if he walked into a KKK ceremony? Uh, like a black man.

I'd dare say there's plenty of places here in America still today, where a mixed-race person would be treated poorly because of the color of their skin.

There are plenty, or rather, too many, in this country who did not vote for him mainly because of race. They were quoted and documented, those who were willing to be quoted. I didn't make that up, it happened, they represented themselves and said what they said, so don't try to deny that please.

I have lived long enough to see with my own eyes how race perception has affected my country.

I can't actually experience what they're feeling because I am white and have lived a privileged life, but I can sure as heck see how black Americans have good reason to celebrate. Even if he is half white.

2012: Condolezza Rice, GOP Presidential Candidate, taking on Barack Obama. Now THAT would be something, wouldn't it? I wonder if the GOP could ever be so bold. Think about it, if you just HATE Democrats, what a great way to challenge the sitting president in 2012! Don't say it couldn't happen. History has just been made.

- Bill in Spring

Posted by: Bill in Spring at November 5, 2008 11:40 AM

[bolverk]

Did people graciously congratulate the Irish for John F. Kennedy for being the first Irish Catholic elected to the office of the President of the United States? I doubt it. I call that a double standard considering the level of discrimination suffered by the Irish in the history of this country.

Next, I am from poor dirt farmer stock. The very people who gave their lives to build this country. I have never been privileged one day in my life. To me, I believe the measure of race has run it's course, but that did not stop liberals and progressives from claiming Americans were racist if they voted against Barack Obama. That insults me, because the election of Barack Obama has proven that racism is dead in the hall of government in this country and has been for some time. Using it as an election tool is underhanded and dirty tactics.

Obviously, you missed this post where I do actually congratulate Barack Hussein Obama on his victory here on this very board. Although you will probably consider it racist that I want him to have the same "Free Ride" George W. Bush got from the Democrats the last few years.

[jgaffney]

That's great. The US has now finally moved past racism and elected a black man as president. Unfortunately, we got Obama.

[JustMyOpinion]

Bolverk, I posted my last response to you because in this thread you'd posted that Barack was of a mixed race, not "black" as everyone was claiming. I just thought that the poster in the Houston Chron raised some valid points about how, or why he could be viewed as black, and when I read it I thought of your previous post.

You'd posted:

Did people graciously congratulate the Irish for John F. Kennedy for being the first Irish Catholic elected to the office of the President of the United States? I doubt it. I call that a double standard considering the level of discrimination suffered by the Irish in the history of this country.

You are right, and I actually read a post about that this morning, here's a snippet:

I will never forget the moment in January 1961, when John F. Kennedy was sworn in as president. I was watching his inaugural address in the cafeteria of the Harvard Law School, when I was startled by feeling warm tears streak down my cheeks. I was caught by surprise; I had not expected that. Yet it was so astonishing to witness a Roman Catholic becoming the public face of our nation, as presidents always do. It had seemed impossible to imagine, in this very Protestant country. In the Harvard graduate schools, a Catholic felt like a man with green hair—an oddity. But not any more, not after John F. Kennedy became president.

Full Article:

article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDI5OTQxNGJmMDIyYTJjODAzNWQ5NmJlZjE0NDdiMmE=

[JustMyOpinion]

Nov 5, 2008 17:46:56 GMT -5 jgaffney said:

That's great. The US has now finally moved past racism and elected a black man as president. Unfortunately, we got Obama.

Well, I guess time will tell. I feel somewhat reassured that he publicly claims "change" is not going to come easily, or quickly, and that as Americans we will have to sacrifice to get our country back on track. I respect that he didn't gloat over winning, like he'd just hit the lottery, but instead he appeared to be stoic and understands the gravity of his new job and the extreme responsibility that goes with it.

[bolverk]

Our country is not off track. Unless you count the thievery called the income tax system implemented by another Democrat ruled House, Senate and Presidency. Until Americans are willing to let go of the wealth issue and politicians stop playing us against each other, this country will not truly be on track. The current income tax system has done more to damage this country then just about any other law.

[JustMyOpinion]

Regarding the income tax you may very well be right, but it's what we have right now and until there is a revamping of it it is what it is.

According to Obama, 95% of Americans won't feel the tax increase directly, 98% of of small businesses don't earn over $250k, and they will receive capitol gains tax breaks.


Provide Zero Capital Gains and Other Tax Relief for Small Businesses and Start Ups:

Barack Obama believes that we need to reduce burdens on small business owners, many of whom are struggling to succeed as
health care and energy costs continue to skyrocket. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will eliminate all capital
gains taxes on small and start-up businesses to encourage innovation and job creation. Obama and Biden will
support small business owners by providing a $500 “Making Work Pay” tax credit to almost every worker in
America. Self-employed small business owners pay both the employee and the employer side of the payroll
tax, and this measure will reduce the burdens of this double taxation.

Source:

www.barackobama.com/pdf/SmallBusinessFINAL.pdf

I am not a tax expert, and you are very well versed on the subject, however in my laymen mind if the country is in enormous debt (and we are), money will need to come from several sources, including income tax, and cutting dead-weight programs. People who earn above the $250k mark are not going to be seriously hurt by the additional 3% above the $250k mark, wouldn't it work out to be around $3k per additional $100k above the 250k? If so they put off buying a new car for a couple of years...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

To add: I do realize my numbers aren't exact, and that the tax base jumps from 36%-39% when earning over $250k, but income below the 250k is taxed at the lower rate.